They didn't make a stand though... they quit to make it easier for Trump to leave their chairs empty or fill them with anti-vax followers to speed-run us to a public health disaster. I truly sympathize with how difficult it is for them but believe we've reached a point where the public needs our best to have the courage to stay and defy evil.
Dave, the brave scientists DID make a stand. By quitting they were able to speak publicly which they did last night (SEE MSNBC). This included providing the information that the evil and deluded RFK Jr NEVER asked any of the CDC experts for briefings on vaccines!!! This is crucial information for the Senate hearing next week.
How could they stay and put out false statements as RFK Jr et al will demand? I empathize with your horror at the situation but please have empathy with scientists who WE NEED TO KEEP SPEAKING OUT. They are brave and they will be crucial allies in the future. Huge kudos to them. Best, Carol Peyser MD www.standupforscience.com
Based on my experience assisting groups with strategic activism, the idea is to take a stand by holding and blocking your seat from anti-vaxxers, refuse to sign false statements and relay dangerous guidance, keep the debate going longer in the public eye, delay their evil plans, try to warn as much of the public as possible, and force them to fire you for the optics.
Leaving now will just give the opposition what they want, make a tiny splash that's quickly forgotten in the news cycle, can make supporters question their devotion as well as the importance of the cause, and perpetuate the broader criticism that the left isn't doing enough to stop the right's plans.
I have to agree. The sane people in this country needed to start practicing the politics of obstruction as soon as this maladministration was put in place. Force them to fire you and then sue them.
In a war against horrific evils, should they knowingly lend their names and integrity to acts that weaken our national defense against mass murders? Or should they stay at their stations and try to resist unethical actions? The Director took a stand and was quickly relieved. The others were next and knew what was coming. They surely talked about it and agreed to honor their oaths, resign, and keep fighting. CDC colleagues publicly saluted their courage and sacrifice. It made headline news.
This metaphor to military commanders isn’t altogether figurative. Officers of the USPHS Commissioned Corps and Ready Reserve are detailed to the CDC. They are on active duty, serving in uniform, under the operational directives of CDC leadership and rapidly deployable to emergencies.
But what will we do without the institutional knowledge? Why are we not impeaching RFK for his incompetence and lies? Why is Louisiana Senator Cassidy silent as an oversight committee member for this? He was the deciding vote. What happened to the Hippocratic oath?
You're absolutely right to decry this tragedy and travesty. But with the current group of Republicans in Congress, sadly there's no way RFK Jr will be impeached anytime soon, though I'm campaigning for that as a way to spread the word .
Senator Cassidy needs to speak our and he could at the hearing next week, but he probably will cave to political pressures. But, even if you aren't in Louisiana, with friends you could deluge his voicemail with demands.
And everyone can urge friends in DC to demonstrate with signs outside the Senate hearing where RFK Jr is being grilled next week, even if they have to be a ways away from the building with the National Guard there.
This is an ongoing disaster and battle. Please demonstrate on Sept 1
It would take, literally, and Act of Congress to impeach RFK Jr. and we all should know by now that the controlling GOP members don't have the balls to counter Trump's criminal activities.
What has been done to the leadership at CDC beggars belief. It is heartening to see that those who worked for them came forward to express their appreciation and solidarity. We all need to follow their courageous example.
I'm a recently-retired physician whose college 50th reunion takes place next year. I mention this because RFK Jr. was in my college class (so was John Roberts--what a gift to society we gave!). Many of my classmates went into health care professions; many others are acutely aware of developments and quite cognizant of just how much damage he has wrought. I would like to figure out how to arrange some kind of protest event at the reunion demonstrating the deeply felt disrespect many of us have for Kennedy's harmful actions and his arrogance. I don't deceive myself into believing that this will have a direct impact on what he and the administration he works for are doing to the nation's public health, but I would like the world to know just how strongly those who came of age with him disavow what he is doing.
When this whole authoritarian nightmare is over we will need thousands of mental health providers because of how highly traumatized this country is. We need to start a volunteer group--similar to Americorps--of trained folks who can do SWAT team early intervention. They are first-line to encourage folks to simply have that first verbalization that could bring some instant relief. Just like what fire jumpers do when a wildfire breaks out.
I'd like to talk with you about this need - it's already there - and will only grow, I fear. Please contact me at lhall.eachmatters@gmail.com. I have a 45=+ year career in Public Health and am a Certified Grief Recovery Method Specialist - I have some ideas... Thanks for pointing out the need for support!
Thank you and your team for setting a sterling example of courage for us all. Please enjoy your Labor Day weekend—you have more than earned the right to some time away from the maelstrom.
On the “things we can do” front, there is a live issue regarding CVS withholding Covid vaccines in 16 states because CVS believes these states require CDC approval before offering vaccinations. I have written to all my federal and state representatives about this. If anyone here would like to do so, too, below is the text I sent. Please feel free to use it as the basis for your own communications.
”The New York Times is reporting that New York is among those states where CVS is holding off on making COVID vaccines available because it “believes its pharmacists need a C.D.C. endorsement.” Please do everything possible to remove any such obstacles to vaccine availability in New York State, and to assure these vaccines are fully available, in the same manner as they have been in the past, to New York State residents.
“I look forward to hearing from you with your plan of action to assure Covid vaccine availability in New York State.”
This is actually the question right now: if there is an FDA approved product, what is the actual role of further endorsements? I have been expecting that this is more of an “insurance may not pay us” problem, but is there something in state law and licensing we can update? Who can give and what can be given? What role does our CDS license and our DEA and our medical licenses play? What say the state medical boards who license us? What exactly does the DEA license afford us with respect to all this?
Goodness, I just knew I needed all these things and have had them for decades, but never really thought about which authority was granted, specifically, by each?
What if I administer covid vaccines (or any vaccines at all) that this new administration disagrees with, can they remove my DEA license? What about if it comes up for renewal soon (I have to check my dates)? Could I be denied? Maybe they ask if I have ever given a vaccine to a child?
I don’t think these are crazy questions these days. Jr has already levied attacks on pediatricians surrounding vaccines….
A hopeful aspect here (at least I hope so😎) is that medical practice is regulated at the state level, so state level requirements that impede ready availability of COVID vaccines should be able to be adjusted at the state level, too. By writing our representatives, we can help encourage that along.
It does seem the DEA is for controlled substances, but I have to provide it to purchase any and all of the vaccines in my office. That may just be an identifier. But it would affect my patients whose ADHD medications I manage should that be a factor…
You may be able to use your NPI number. Not all physicians prescribe controlled substances. After I changed my license to volunteer status, I dropped my DEA registration when it expired. I’ve had one pharmacy ask for it, because they use the number in their system, but my license and NPI number were all they needed.
FDA Commissioner Markary was on TV today discussing this. He stated that healthy people six months and up can still get the vaccines despite the new restrictions on children and other healthy people if prescribed by their doctor. That statement needs further clarification. But what was clear in the interview is that the FDA cancelled the Emergency Use Authorization that wasn't set to expire until next year. This means that the legal liability for vaccine injuries provided under the PREP act will no longer apply to these shots. And that has serious legal liability implications for the manufacturers and physicians who prescribe them as well as insurance coverage. He also stated that the removal of the EUA means the vaccines can no longer be mandated.
Maybe I am just very confused (absolutely possible) but the Moderna vaccine was fully FDA approved this spring for 6m+, so I am not sure I fully understand what physician liability for an approved product would be?
I don’t expect that answer here, it is already on my list of things to address with our risk management team and attorneys.
I have already been priming parents very eager to get their babies a primary series for covid that they will need some medical diagnosis. Reactive Airway disease should be called asthma, despite young age; obesity (goodness that won’t be too hard ironically); mental health (half of my patients already have anxiety on their problem list), etc.,. The little 6m-23m, the most needy, may be the most difficult to justify.
The AAP having the updated schedule is extremely helpful (including legally).
So yeah, we need a lot more information. I don’t expect it to be forthcoming from the government.
I think that the DEA could be weaponized to enforce draconian punishments on providers, but, I don't think Trump or his minions see vaccines as politically worth it as a target anymore. Except of course RFKjr
Thank you. I have to believe there is much that can be done at the state level, so the more of us who let our legislators know we are concerned will help raise finding ways to do that to the top of their agenda.
I really want to than you for this information. While I was sharing your text with my local representative I noticed her office is just up the street from me. I plan to stop in next week.
I wanted to report back here that I have ALREADY heard back from my state assembly person about the issue of CVS holding off on making COVID vaccines available because CVS believes pharmacists need a CDC endorsement. My assembly person wrote back that he has ALREADY proposed changes to New York Law to address these problems--and, on reviewing what he has proposed, I think he's on the right track (though I will definitely be tracking this to make sure he follows through).
I encourage anyone in any of the 16 affected states who have not contacted their legislators to do so. State legislators CAN deliver on this. Here's what has been proposed in NYS, FYI: https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2025/s7823a
Footnote: The NY legislature is not currently in session, and will not resume until January, so a special session will need to be called, as well as finding interim administrative measures, which may be underway, but I have to follow up on that. I will be following up with my assembly member to see what additional steps are in the works. I write all this because I do think, at least in affected blue states, you should find a lot of receptivity to pursuing this, so it is definitely worthwhile to let them know you want them to do that.
Governor Hochul can call for a special session, or barring that, issue an executive order that's functionally equivalent to the proposed legislation. Write to her!
As a retired environmental microbiologist, I've tried to focus my volunteer and protest efforts on water issues, but attacking and politicizing the CDC is too horrifying to ignore. The CDC gets 0.7% of federal spending compared to the 16% to the military.
What is our biggest threat...well COVID killed way more Americans than WWI, WWII combined. This is insane.
As a microbiologist involved in water issues I'm curious what you think about water fluoridation. Do you consider fluoride to be essential, as promoters and even a U.S. government agency did at one time?
Do you have any concern about fluoride levels building up in our bodies over a lifetime?
Do you have any concerns about U.S. persons ingesting fluoride at a rate over the safe upper intake level?
Can fluoride intake cause a loss of IQ in children?
Fluoride occurs in a lot natural waters and they observed that people living in those areas had fewer cavities. This led to further studies and introduction into water that lacked fluoride.
Efficacy is dictated by concentration. Like any chemical, high concentrations can be a problem.
That anti-flouride crusade is just more evidence that the far right hasn't had an new idea in a century, at best. The John Birch Society was selling that snake oil 70 years ago. Back then it was a Communist Plot to turn us all into Commies in some rather magical way.
What's your degree, when did you get it, and where is it from? If you're going to claim credentials be prepared to provide evidence that they exist. Any published research? If so, where?
And what, precisely, does "involved in water issues" mean?
I wasn't replying to you. It's Mr. Cragoe's alleged creds as "a microbiologist involved in water issues" that I'm questioning. That entire comment was a reply to him.
Thanks so much, Katelyn, for this ray of much-needed sunshine.
As one of so many of us “on the ground” who now faces questions from bewildered parents about vaccine safety addressed by evidence-based medicine already over 25 years ago, your excellent columns and the recommendations of Megan Ranney (“Collect the data. Share the data. Write the stories. Share the stories. Do the analyses. Share the analyses. Call your reps. Mentor the kids. Create the partnerships. Join the groups. Build the parks. Don’t give up.”) finally give us a starting blueprint for navigating these challenging and truly perplexing times.
Courage indeed to all of us who work every day for nothing but our patients’ health and our communities’ collective welfare.
I have been so lucky never to have had to make such a stand. These folks, standing strong against the darkness of our time, are true heroes.
They didn't make a stand though... they quit to make it easier for Trump to leave their chairs empty or fill them with anti-vax followers to speed-run us to a public health disaster. I truly sympathize with how difficult it is for them but believe we've reached a point where the public needs our best to have the courage to stay and defy evil.
Dave, the brave scientists DID make a stand. By quitting they were able to speak publicly which they did last night (SEE MSNBC). This included providing the information that the evil and deluded RFK Jr NEVER asked any of the CDC experts for briefings on vaccines!!! This is crucial information for the Senate hearing next week.
How could they stay and put out false statements as RFK Jr et al will demand? I empathize with your horror at the situation but please have empathy with scientists who WE NEED TO KEEP SPEAKING OUT. They are brave and they will be crucial allies in the future. Huge kudos to them. Best, Carol Peyser MD www.standupforscience.com
Based on my experience assisting groups with strategic activism, the idea is to take a stand by holding and blocking your seat from anti-vaxxers, refuse to sign false statements and relay dangerous guidance, keep the debate going longer in the public eye, delay their evil plans, try to warn as much of the public as possible, and force them to fire you for the optics.
Leaving now will just give the opposition what they want, make a tiny splash that's quickly forgotten in the news cycle, can make supporters question their devotion as well as the importance of the cause, and perpetuate the broader criticism that the left isn't doing enough to stop the right's plans.
.
I have to agree. The sane people in this country needed to start practicing the politics of obstruction as soon as this maladministration was put in place. Force them to fire you and then sue them.
I disagree. Most of us civil servants are laypeople when it comes to actual fighting. My day consists of writing mind numbingly boring memos.
This should be treated as an active shooter protocol:
1. Run
2. Hide
3. Fight
In a war against horrific evils, should they knowingly lend their names and integrity to acts that weaken our national defense against mass murders? Or should they stay at their stations and try to resist unethical actions? The Director took a stand and was quickly relieved. The others were next and knew what was coming. They surely talked about it and agreed to honor their oaths, resign, and keep fighting. CDC colleagues publicly saluted their courage and sacrifice. It made headline news.
This metaphor to military commanders isn’t altogether figurative. Officers of the USPHS Commissioned Corps and Ready Reserve are detailed to the CDC. They are on active duty, serving in uniform, under the operational directives of CDC leadership and rapidly deployable to emergencies.
But what will we do without the institutional knowledge? Why are we not impeaching RFK for his incompetence and lies? Why is Louisiana Senator Cassidy silent as an oversight committee member for this? He was the deciding vote. What happened to the Hippocratic oath?
Because he and the rest of his party are all either 1) unrepentant fascists 2) immoral hustlers 3) sniveling cowards.
And those categories are not mutually exclusive. But every single one of them fits at least one.
You're absolutely right to decry this tragedy and travesty. But with the current group of Republicans in Congress, sadly there's no way RFK Jr will be impeached anytime soon, though I'm campaigning for that as a way to spread the word .
Senator Cassidy needs to speak our and he could at the hearing next week, but he probably will cave to political pressures. But, even if you aren't in Louisiana, with friends you could deluge his voicemail with demands.
And everyone can urge friends in DC to demonstrate with signs outside the Senate hearing where RFK Jr is being grilled next week, even if they have to be a ways away from the building with the National Guard there.
This is an ongoing disaster and battle. Please demonstrate on Sept 1
Warm wishes,
Carol
Carol Peyser MD
www.scienceandsanity.com
It would take, literally, and Act of Congress to impeach RFK Jr. and we all should know by now that the controlling GOP members don't have the balls to counter Trump's criminal activities.
What has been done to the leadership at CDC beggars belief. It is heartening to see that those who worked for them came forward to express their appreciation and solidarity. We all need to follow their courageous example.
I'm a recently-retired physician whose college 50th reunion takes place next year. I mention this because RFK Jr. was in my college class (so was John Roberts--what a gift to society we gave!). Many of my classmates went into health care professions; many others are acutely aware of developments and quite cognizant of just how much damage he has wrought. I would like to figure out how to arrange some kind of protest event at the reunion demonstrating the deeply felt disrespect many of us have for Kennedy's harmful actions and his arrogance. I don't deceive myself into believing that this will have a direct impact on what he and the administration he works for are doing to the nation's public health, but I would like the world to know just how strongly those who came of age with him disavow what he is doing.
When this whole authoritarian nightmare is over we will need thousands of mental health providers because of how highly traumatized this country is. We need to start a volunteer group--similar to Americorps--of trained folks who can do SWAT team early intervention. They are first-line to encourage folks to simply have that first verbalization that could bring some instant relief. Just like what fire jumpers do when a wildfire breaks out.
folks to just initially verbalize
don't wait. start studying peer mental health and critical incident stress debriefing NOW. Don't wait for someone else to do it.
I'd like to talk with you about this need - it's already there - and will only grow, I fear. Please contact me at lhall.eachmatters@gmail.com. I have a 45=+ year career in Public Health and am a Certified Grief Recovery Method Specialist - I have some ideas... Thanks for pointing out the need for support!
Tears. Just tears. Seeing the members of the U.S. Public Health Service, in uniform, saluting … that just undid me.
As a former Naval officer, seeing members of the Uniformed Public Health Service standing as a group and saluting got me, too.
Did you have the privilege of serving with them on a Naval Diplomacy mission?
No. I was in a different line of duty. But the uniform’s the uniform, and a salute is a salute.
Hats off to those who are standing up and standing strong for Truth and Integrity! I salute you and am grateful for the courage you have shown.
Thank you and your team for setting a sterling example of courage for us all. Please enjoy your Labor Day weekend—you have more than earned the right to some time away from the maelstrom.
On the “things we can do” front, there is a live issue regarding CVS withholding Covid vaccines in 16 states because CVS believes these states require CDC approval before offering vaccinations. I have written to all my federal and state representatives about this. If anyone here would like to do so, too, below is the text I sent. Please feel free to use it as the basis for your own communications.
”The New York Times is reporting that New York is among those states where CVS is holding off on making COVID vaccines available because it “believes its pharmacists need a C.D.C. endorsement.” Please do everything possible to remove any such obstacles to vaccine availability in New York State, and to assure these vaccines are fully available, in the same manner as they have been in the past, to New York State residents.
“I look forward to hearing from you with your plan of action to assure Covid vaccine availability in New York State.”
This is actually the question right now: if there is an FDA approved product, what is the actual role of further endorsements? I have been expecting that this is more of an “insurance may not pay us” problem, but is there something in state law and licensing we can update? Who can give and what can be given? What role does our CDS license and our DEA and our medical licenses play? What say the state medical boards who license us? What exactly does the DEA license afford us with respect to all this?
Goodness, I just knew I needed all these things and have had them for decades, but never really thought about which authority was granted, specifically, by each?
What if I administer covid vaccines (or any vaccines at all) that this new administration disagrees with, can they remove my DEA license? What about if it comes up for renewal soon (I have to check my dates)? Could I be denied? Maybe they ask if I have ever given a vaccine to a child?
I don’t think these are crazy questions these days. Jr has already levied attacks on pediatricians surrounding vaccines….
I am not unrealistically worried.
A hopeful aspect here (at least I hope so😎) is that medical practice is regulated at the state level, so state level requirements that impede ready availability of COVID vaccines should be able to be adjusted at the state level, too. By writing our representatives, we can help encourage that along.
It does seem the DEA is for controlled substances, but I have to provide it to purchase any and all of the vaccines in my office. That may just be an identifier. But it would affect my patients whose ADHD medications I manage should that be a factor…
I am not an alarmist, just a realist…
I understand completely. You're definitely not being an alarmist!
You may be able to use your NPI number. Not all physicians prescribe controlled substances. After I changed my license to volunteer status, I dropped my DEA registration when it expired. I’ve had one pharmacy ask for it, because they use the number in their system, but my license and NPI number were all they needed.
I read that the New Mexico legislature was changing the law that required ACIP approval for vaccines.
FDA Commissioner Markary was on TV today discussing this. He stated that healthy people six months and up can still get the vaccines despite the new restrictions on children and other healthy people if prescribed by their doctor. That statement needs further clarification. But what was clear in the interview is that the FDA cancelled the Emergency Use Authorization that wasn't set to expire until next year. This means that the legal liability for vaccine injuries provided under the PREP act will no longer apply to these shots. And that has serious legal liability implications for the manufacturers and physicians who prescribe them as well as insurance coverage. He also stated that the removal of the EUA means the vaccines can no longer be mandated.
Maybe I am just very confused (absolutely possible) but the Moderna vaccine was fully FDA approved this spring for 6m+, so I am not sure I fully understand what physician liability for an approved product would be?
I don’t expect that answer here, it is already on my list of things to address with our risk management team and attorneys.
I have already been priming parents very eager to get their babies a primary series for covid that they will need some medical diagnosis. Reactive Airway disease should be called asthma, despite young age; obesity (goodness that won’t be too hard ironically); mental health (half of my patients already have anxiety on their problem list), etc.,. The little 6m-23m, the most needy, may be the most difficult to justify.
The AAP having the updated schedule is extremely helpful (including legally).
So yeah, we need a lot more information. I don’t expect it to be forthcoming from the government.
I think that the DEA could be weaponized to enforce draconian punishments on providers, but, I don't think Trump or his minions see vaccines as politically worth it as a target anymore. Except of course RFKjr
Thank you for sharing your text. I'm also in NYS and I will be sending it to my representatives.
Thank you. I have to believe there is much that can be done at the state level, so the more of us who let our legislators know we are concerned will help raise finding ways to do that to the top of their agenda.
I really want to than you for this information. While I was sharing your text with my local representative I noticed her office is just up the street from me. I plan to stop in next week.
Oh, that’s great!
I wanted to report back here that I have ALREADY heard back from my state assembly person about the issue of CVS holding off on making COVID vaccines available because CVS believes pharmacists need a CDC endorsement. My assembly person wrote back that he has ALREADY proposed changes to New York Law to address these problems--and, on reviewing what he has proposed, I think he's on the right track (though I will definitely be tracking this to make sure he follows through).
I encourage anyone in any of the 16 affected states who have not contacted their legislators to do so. State legislators CAN deliver on this. Here's what has been proposed in NYS, FYI: https://legislation.nysenate.gov/pdf/bills/2025/s7823a
Footnote: The NY legislature is not currently in session, and will not resume until January, so a special session will need to be called, as well as finding interim administrative measures, which may be underway, but I have to follow up on that. I will be following up with my assembly member to see what additional steps are in the works. I write all this because I do think, at least in affected blue states, you should find a lot of receptivity to pursuing this, so it is definitely worthwhile to let them know you want them to do that.
Insurance law also needs to be amended
Governor Hochul can call for a special session, or barring that, issue an executive order that's functionally equivalent to the proposed legislation. Write to her!
As a retired environmental microbiologist, I've tried to focus my volunteer and protest efforts on water issues, but attacking and politicizing the CDC is too horrifying to ignore. The CDC gets 0.7% of federal spending compared to the 16% to the military.
What is our biggest threat...well COVID killed way more Americans than WWI, WWII combined. This is insane.
Trump has his Lysenko in RFK Jr.
As a microbiologist involved in water issues I'm curious what you think about water fluoridation. Do you consider fluoride to be essential, as promoters and even a U.S. government agency did at one time?
Do you have any concern about fluoride levels building up in our bodies over a lifetime?
Do you have any concerns about U.S. persons ingesting fluoride at a rate over the safe upper intake level?
Can fluoride intake cause a loss of IQ in children?
Fluoride occurs in a lot natural waters and they observed that people living in those areas had fewer cavities. This led to further studies and introduction into water that lacked fluoride.
Efficacy is dictated by concentration. Like any chemical, high concentrations can be a problem.
That anti-flouride crusade is just more evidence that the far right hasn't had an new idea in a century, at best. The John Birch Society was selling that snake oil 70 years ago. Back then it was a Communist Plot to turn us all into Commies in some rather magical way.
What's your degree, when did you get it, and where is it from? If you're going to claim credentials be prepared to provide evidence that they exist. Any published research? If so, where?
And what, precisely, does "involved in water issues" mean?
Google me Mr. Arts. You can find my patents. I don't have time for trolls.
I wasn't replying to you. It's Mr. Cragoe's alleged creds as "a microbiologist involved in water issues" that I'm questioning. That entire comment was a reply to him.
A lot more courageous than many politicians
You have been a bright light in the struggle for truth! Thank you from the bottom of my heart and have a very restful holiday weekend.
One step at a time. Won’t stop sharing facts to parents of my precious patients. Thank you for your continued encouragement and truth!
Courage is a better choice than despair, which is my initial reaction . . .
We will work to make it through this- thank you to these brave public health workers!
Well said Katelyn. You too exhibit great courage. Keep it up!!!
Thank you for your clarity and hope that common sense, science and real data will persevere.
Thanks so much, Katelyn, for this ray of much-needed sunshine.
As one of so many of us “on the ground” who now faces questions from bewildered parents about vaccine safety addressed by evidence-based medicine already over 25 years ago, your excellent columns and the recommendations of Megan Ranney (“Collect the data. Share the data. Write the stories. Share the stories. Do the analyses. Share the analyses. Call your reps. Mentor the kids. Create the partnerships. Join the groups. Build the parks. Don’t give up.”) finally give us a starting blueprint for navigating these challenging and truly perplexing times.
Courage indeed to all of us who work every day for nothing but our patients’ health and our communities’ collective welfare.
Carole O’Beirne, Pediatrician