Thank you for this summary. In my personal experience, and that of my family, masks work! We all wear KF94 masks and have not gotten covid. The kids attend school, birthday parties, etc. We are out in the world and even though most people around us no longer wear masks we continue to be very well protected (as evidenced by no COVID).
Thank you for this summary. In my personal experience, and that of my family, masks work! We all wear KF94 masks and have not gotten covid. The kids attend school, birthday parties, etc. We are out in the world and even though most people around us no longer wear masks we continue to be very well protected (as evidenced by no COVID).
Maybe if enough people comment here, Dr. Jetelina can whip up a Cochrane level analysis in support of well-fitting N95 (or similar) masks against Covid 😉
So here’s my data point:
Family doc, personally insisted on wearing my own N95 as far back as February 2020 (had some leftover from H1N1 fears), in small rooms with patients. Up to date vax always. No covid
Wife Ob Gyn, similar story, except that labor and delivery is by itself an aerosolizing event. No Covid.
Daughter up to date with vax and boosters, wears an N95 at school (her choice, we don’t insist, she’s just a smart freethinking (stubborn?) little girl). Despite class and teachers perpetually sick with something including Covid... no Covid.
We will get Covid someday, maybe I have it right now and asymptomatic... but hard to argue with anecdotes like this right?
Also, asymptomatic spread was “known” on Twitter quite earlier than this timeline, as was the de facto spread via aerosols when looking at epidemiology. Statements of fact were withheld because of logistical and liability reasons, and many health care workers lost their jobs (and lives) because they refused to compromise with flimsy mask mandates from hospital systems prohibiting personal N95 use. When our health system finally procured and offered 1 surgical mask per person per day, it was presented to us like a golden calf. By that time I had already secured a bunch of N95s, which I cycled in paper bags that dried out on a clothesline in my basement.
Good mask, good fit, NO QUESTION this works for the individual in my humble opinion and experience.
Welcome back from Turkey, I can only imagine what you witnessed. 😔
It was probably late June 2020 when I started questioning the large droplet and fomite theories and embraced aerosol spread. By then, I was hearing a lot from clinicians who had similar thoughts. It took awhile for the Redfield CDC to accept the proposition officially. Birx and Fauci were pushing a rope uphill with the concepts of asymptomatic spread and aerosol transmission by that time, too.
Ryan: glad to see this report from you. Great information! Here’s one thing that continues to concern me, and despite my best efforts, it’s really hard to get clear info. That is, for our purposes, eg, popping into drug stores, grocery stores, or even longer things, like going to art museums when not crowded, we opt for a properly authenticated Powecom KN95 mask, fitting it as tightly as the earloop design will allow. We tried using Aura N95 masks for these purposes, but while they are, within the N95 range, more comfortable, we found the headband design quickly became impractical. (We do use our Aura N95s when going on public transportation.) We did get Covid this January, but it was from a small unmasked dinner gathering where we subsequently learned one who attended had Covid without knowing it and gave it to all attending, and we shall never repeat the folly of that. Until that gathering, we had been Covid free using the procedures I describe. What I’d like to get a better fix on is how much slippage in protection there is as between an N95 and a KN95/KF94, assuming all are worn with as tight a fit as possible. Of course there is some, but despite many efforts to research this, I can’t seem to get a handle on how much. Any thoughts?
Hi Susan- I agree with Gerry below, and I think the filtration differences in the masks you described are negligible. The fit becomes the most important issue. As an employed physician in a hospital system I had a mandatory fit test while wearing several types of N95 masks, and the Aura fit my face the best with no leaks. Maybe a decent, homemade proxy for this would be to wear a mask and see if your glasses fog up while you’re breathing! Not sure though.
I really am troubled by people latching on to recent studies highlighted here and thinking the conclusion is that masking does not work for the careful. If you’re sloppy, inconsistent, and choosing weak materials and fits as a community, of course the zoomed out studies will be disappointing. But for the individual like myself, who could have had Covid from multiple known and unknown exposures (I see sick people, too), I rely on my N95 and absolutely know it works.
If I had more time and reach I might do a post about how masking is along a continuum, from worthless gators to well fitting elastomeric N99s. Fit matters, as does context and environment. SARS CoV2 has evolved to become insanely contagious, orders of magnitude above the original wild type I think, so some masks might have held up in the beginning but not anymore, too.
I think we're in violent agreement. I, too, have been formally fit-tested. The Aura was the "best" fit for me of the ones offered, but the BNX mask I use at home is more comfortable and maintains a decent fit.
The "Do my glasses fog" test is reasonable in most settings, I suspect. The other option to improve fit is a second mask, such as a simple surgical or procedure mask. This is less to add filtration, but does often improve fit.
Along with the continuum of worthless gaters to well-fitted N99s, there's an orthogonal consideration: Masks are one, if significant part, of a continuum of protective measures in public health. Masking, distancing, hand washing, isolation when necessary, quarantine when necessary, vaccination, these all play a role. Individual elements are not as effective as employing the spectrum of controls.
My visit to the Palo Alto MC included their masking with tape the top edge, then my glasses weren't fogged. Being a physicist, I appreciate their writing, "iI's physics.".
bc .... thinks tape all edges, because he has a beard.
Ryan: very grateful to you, as well as Gerry, for responding, and with such an incredible clarity. It’s a relief to have confirmation that “fit matters, as well as context and environment,” as is what the evolution of the virus means in terms of choice (and fit) of mask. I think what many folks do, and who can blame them in this ever changing environment, is to judge based on personal experience, rather than an understanding of the science. So, for example, I still see folks in my building who, while clearly wishing to be careful, are still using cloth masks. And thanks, too, for confirmation on the “fog” test as a potentially reasonable proxy (which, as I am always reminding my spouse, cannot be achieved with a KN95 if you don’t get the crease out--as Lindsey Marr once said about that crease: people don’t have beaks).
I have not seen any research on KN95/KF94 vs N95, but the main difference is the dual head band for the typical N95 providing a more secure fit. I can usually achieve a decent fit with a KN95 but I've been wearing masks for years in settings where it really was important. Practice helps. Most of the KN/KF masks I've seen really are difficult to get a good and consistent fit on. I've found a company that makes both N95 and KN95, with the sole difference being the ear-strap vs headband. For my face, those fit well and remain comfortable. I am fairly confident that, in that mask, I'm very close to equivalent but I've not gone on a test stand to confirm this. I just know I have no leak around my nose/eyes and chin.
Gerry: Thanks, and understood it’s just your experience, no interest/stake in the company. Much appreciated that you’ve taken the time to weigh in on all this. It’s been really helpful.
Thank you for this summary. In my personal experience, and that of my family, masks work! We all wear KF94 masks and have not gotten covid. The kids attend school, birthday parties, etc. We are out in the world and even though most people around us no longer wear masks we continue to be very well protected (as evidenced by no COVID).
Maybe if enough people comment here, Dr. Jetelina can whip up a Cochrane level analysis in support of well-fitting N95 (or similar) masks against Covid 😉
So here’s my data point:
Family doc, personally insisted on wearing my own N95 as far back as February 2020 (had some leftover from H1N1 fears), in small rooms with patients. Up to date vax always. No covid
Wife Ob Gyn, similar story, except that labor and delivery is by itself an aerosolizing event. No Covid.
Daughter up to date with vax and boosters, wears an N95 at school (her choice, we don’t insist, she’s just a smart freethinking (stubborn?) little girl). Despite class and teachers perpetually sick with something including Covid... no Covid.
We will get Covid someday, maybe I have it right now and asymptomatic... but hard to argue with anecdotes like this right?
Also, asymptomatic spread was “known” on Twitter quite earlier than this timeline, as was the de facto spread via aerosols when looking at epidemiology. Statements of fact were withheld because of logistical and liability reasons, and many health care workers lost their jobs (and lives) because they refused to compromise with flimsy mask mandates from hospital systems prohibiting personal N95 use. When our health system finally procured and offered 1 surgical mask per person per day, it was presented to us like a golden calf. By that time I had already secured a bunch of N95s, which I cycled in paper bags that dried out on a clothesline in my basement.
Good mask, good fit, NO QUESTION this works for the individual in my humble opinion and experience.
Welcome back from Turkey, I can only imagine what you witnessed. 😔
(Clarification - many healthcare workers lost their lives b/c of improper PPE, either not available or actively discouraged)
horrid~
It was probably late June 2020 when I started questioning the large droplet and fomite theories and embraced aerosol spread. By then, I was hearing a lot from clinicians who had similar thoughts. It took awhile for the Redfield CDC to accept the proposition officially. Birx and Fauci were pushing a rope uphill with the concepts of asymptomatic spread and aerosol transmission by that time, too.
Ryan: glad to see this report from you. Great information! Here’s one thing that continues to concern me, and despite my best efforts, it’s really hard to get clear info. That is, for our purposes, eg, popping into drug stores, grocery stores, or even longer things, like going to art museums when not crowded, we opt for a properly authenticated Powecom KN95 mask, fitting it as tightly as the earloop design will allow. We tried using Aura N95 masks for these purposes, but while they are, within the N95 range, more comfortable, we found the headband design quickly became impractical. (We do use our Aura N95s when going on public transportation.) We did get Covid this January, but it was from a small unmasked dinner gathering where we subsequently learned one who attended had Covid without knowing it and gave it to all attending, and we shall never repeat the folly of that. Until that gathering, we had been Covid free using the procedures I describe. What I’d like to get a better fix on is how much slippage in protection there is as between an N95 and a KN95/KF94, assuming all are worn with as tight a fit as possible. Of course there is some, but despite many efforts to research this, I can’t seem to get a handle on how much. Any thoughts?
Hi Susan- I agree with Gerry below, and I think the filtration differences in the masks you described are negligible. The fit becomes the most important issue. As an employed physician in a hospital system I had a mandatory fit test while wearing several types of N95 masks, and the Aura fit my face the best with no leaks. Maybe a decent, homemade proxy for this would be to wear a mask and see if your glasses fog up while you’re breathing! Not sure though.
I really am troubled by people latching on to recent studies highlighted here and thinking the conclusion is that masking does not work for the careful. If you’re sloppy, inconsistent, and choosing weak materials and fits as a community, of course the zoomed out studies will be disappointing. But for the individual like myself, who could have had Covid from multiple known and unknown exposures (I see sick people, too), I rely on my N95 and absolutely know it works.
If I had more time and reach I might do a post about how masking is along a continuum, from worthless gators to well fitting elastomeric N99s. Fit matters, as does context and environment. SARS CoV2 has evolved to become insanely contagious, orders of magnitude above the original wild type I think, so some masks might have held up in the beginning but not anymore, too.
I think we're in violent agreement. I, too, have been formally fit-tested. The Aura was the "best" fit for me of the ones offered, but the BNX mask I use at home is more comfortable and maintains a decent fit.
The "Do my glasses fog" test is reasonable in most settings, I suspect. The other option to improve fit is a second mask, such as a simple surgical or procedure mask. This is less to add filtration, but does often improve fit.
Along with the continuum of worthless gaters to well-fitted N99s, there's an orthogonal consideration: Masks are one, if significant part, of a continuum of protective measures in public health. Masking, distancing, hand washing, isolation when necessary, quarantine when necessary, vaccination, these all play a role. Individual elements are not as effective as employing the spectrum of controls.
My visit to the Palo Alto MC included their masking with tape the top edge, then my glasses weren't fogged. Being a physicist, I appreciate their writing, "iI's physics.".
bc .... thinks tape all edges, because he has a beard.
Ryan: very grateful to you, as well as Gerry, for responding, and with such an incredible clarity. It’s a relief to have confirmation that “fit matters, as well as context and environment,” as is what the evolution of the virus means in terms of choice (and fit) of mask. I think what many folks do, and who can blame them in this ever changing environment, is to judge based on personal experience, rather than an understanding of the science. So, for example, I still see folks in my building who, while clearly wishing to be careful, are still using cloth masks. And thanks, too, for confirmation on the “fog” test as a potentially reasonable proxy (which, as I am always reminding my spouse, cannot be achieved with a KN95 if you don’t get the crease out--as Lindsey Marr once said about that crease: people don’t have beaks).
I have not seen any research on KN95/KF94 vs N95, but the main difference is the dual head band for the typical N95 providing a more secure fit. I can usually achieve a decent fit with a KN95 but I've been wearing masks for years in settings where it really was important. Practice helps. Most of the KN/KF masks I've seen really are difficult to get a good and consistent fit on. I've found a company that makes both N95 and KN95, with the sole difference being the ear-strap vs headband. For my face, those fit well and remain comfortable. I am fairly confident that, in that mask, I'm very close to equivalent but I've not gone on a test stand to confirm this. I just know I have no leak around my nose/eyes and chin.
Gerry: re your more recent, excellent comment, is the company you spotted that makes both the N95 and KN95 BNX?
BNX. I've been happy with both the KN and N variants, depending on setting and how I assess the risk.
https://www.amazon.com/Certified-Particulate-Respirator-Protective-TC-84A-9362/dp/B094DYKP3S
I have no interest or stake in the company, save I like their products. Period.
Gerry: Thanks, and understood it’s just your experience, no interest/stake in the company. Much appreciated that you’ve taken the time to weigh in on all this. It’s been really helpful.
Gerry: thanks so much for weighing in. Yes, getting the fit as tight as possible really important.