Katelyn, I regard you as a national treasure and a personal one, since I rely on you above all other sources for guidance for me and my family in coping with covid. Among the things I prize about YLE are the clarity with which you present abstruse data and also the objectivity. In our painfully polarized moment, it is not only refreshing but also reassuring to find presentation of information free of any hint of a political agenda. It pains me that this post, obviously written mostly by your partners, has a different tone. The title refers to the "culture war," and the tone and substance of the whole thing suggests a thrust from one side in that war. I wish you would avoid partnering with others who may be credentialed but lack your exemplary objectivity. Love you, too,
Thanks so much for this constructive feedback. I strongly believe that science communication and advocacy should be different. I can see where this blurs the line. Framing is a big part of it. I’ll get better. Thanks again!
Thank you, Katelyn. I, too, have the question about how the nitrous dioxide affects adults. Also, is there any difference between natural gas and propane? Lyn
Thank you for this info. We have a gas fireplace that looks like a wood burning stove and run it for several hours a day during winter. Is this also a cause for concern?
When I moved to Tennessee, I noticed that it was common to have gas fireplaces with no ventilation whatsoever. In the house I moved into, that was the case-no chimney, no vent. When we had to run the fireplace for a couple days when the main HVAC went out, I could tell that the air quality noticeably decreased and affected my cognition to a moderate degree. Not surprising, given that you're probably burning a higher volume of gas in a fireplace for a longer period of time than when cooking on a range.
This is obviously a health hazard. One shouldn't burn any kind of gas in a confined space.
If it's enclosed by glass, it probably vents to the outside (or if you can see the chimney/vent), in which case, it's probably not a big concern. If it is open to your house, I would think it's a similar risk to a gas stove, and you'd want better ventilation.
I loved those when I lived in Seattle. My friend had a gas furnace but also a gas fireplace insert in her old chimney fireplace, and it was so delightful to have a little fire going when I visited. Plus, when she was in the family room, then she didn't heat the rest of the house as warm. I'm a lot sadder to give up my gas fireplace than my stove!
This seems like a "Correlation is not causation" weak article. Every few years there is a new likely cause for the increase in childhood asthma. There have been mites, cats, dogs, birds, mold, PM2.5, formaldehyde, fragrances, plasticizers, ventilation and more. There needs to be an all-cause asthma index similar to the (Disability Adjusted Life Years (DALYs) so one can compare the risk factor of a pet bird to a gas stove, or the gigantic PM increase from cooking on an electric stove in a house.
I largely agree with you. PH is terrible at communicating risk, and I hope this is built out.
Causality in public health is built on a lot of things and I think this case has it: Biological plausibility, dose response, consistency. I included this in a draft but took it out in the end. Maybe a framing towards this in the future would be more beneficial
I've been following this topic with interest as I've always chosen gas over electric. One interesting analysis would be if there are any increased public health risks that have been studied with electric over gas, such as increased burns in children/people, kitchen/house fires from inappropriate use (warming a home), etc. I have no idea, but before we throw out all our gas ranges and opt for electric because of nitrogen dioxide concerns I would want to make sure we aren't trading one 'evil' for another in terms of risk. Just because we achieve health gains from one doesn't mean there are not health risks from the other.
One benefit of gas over electric is certainly the increased ability to titrate the amount of heat delivered, and to instantly turn the heat source off with gas, whereas electric remains hot after being turned off.
I love my Breville Indiction cooker more than someone should actually love any appliance. (I don’t work for the company!) it actually senses the temp of the pan so a pot of spaghetti will just slowly boil. Can also be used as a slow cooker.. nothing burns. Also… it can get the pan hotter then our powerful Italian gas range ever could. I promise… look it up. We turned off our gas when I realized I would never cook on it again
I've seen several pieces about the impact on children. I'm curious about the impact on adults. I live in a child-free home with a gas stove and gas fireplace. Should I be concerned for the adults in my home or is the primary impact on children?
Ooh, good question! I had a gas stove and fireplace for years. My fireplace was gas-fronted and vented outside, so that wasn't a big deal. After learning about the dangers of gas stoves, I made sure when I used the stove OR oven, I turned on my range hood (which vented outside; where I lived in WA, it was against code to have a gas stove without that).
I became a foodie a few years back. I bet I've seen a thousand videos and articles since then, and I can't think of a single one that did not use a gas stove or oven, if it showed anything. When you turn the knob, a gas stove responds instantly and precisely. Nothing electric is like that, just saying.
I lived with gas for years in TX, but for years I've felt all-electric smells better, is safer with no open flame, and with a glasstop or induction stove is way easier to keep clean. I've had electric for 30 years now and I can deal with its shortcomings.
I think this is probably much more of an issue in tightly wrapped newer construction. Forty years ago that was not a thing.
And just thinking, working in a restaurant kitchen has got to be as bad, if not worse. Where's OSHA in this?
You can get the same cooking advantage using induction. It's just as fast and gets just as hot. You do need to make sure that all your pans and such work with an induction range.
Readers of YLE might want to visit Jerry LeClaire's' excellent substack Indivisible High Ground newsletter where an article came out today serendipitously on how the new House committee Chair that oversees energy issues and consumer protection related to the same, is turning the mission there around somewhat to promote greater fossil fuel production. I assume that means protection for gas stove manufactury and use. F Y I.
I have lived most of my life in homes with electric stoves, but I now have a gas one, and, unfortunately, I much prefer cooking with it, so I am trying to figure out what to do. I have heard that induction stoves mimic many of the qualities of gas stoves, but they are expensive. I also have a gas clothes dryer, but it is in the basement, so I am hoping it doesn't produce the same problems as the stoves.
Before I even realized the issues of gas stoves… I purchased a Brevelle Induction cooker and an electric pressure cooker. We live in a rental… but I fell weirdly in love with these appliances and actually cut the gas off. The point of my comment is that you can cook even better… smarter… with the right appliances.
In my home state, there is a financial penalty if you remove a gas stove or heating system. The Corporation Commission says the gas companies need the income to make up for purchasing expensive gas during a massive cold snap when gas wells stopped producing. The state actually charges you money if you put in solar then use electric appliances.
A couple of points to emphasize: vented had equipment like furnaces and fireplaces are safer for indoor air, though still bad for the climate. Also no thugs are going to break down your door and take away your stove. Any bans would be banned sale of new gas stoves.
My evidence base is weak ( a comment in the NYT), but here is my question: When the data were gathered, was the strongest correlation with those who used open gas flames for heating as opposed to cooking?
Regarding the COPD linked study, there is a statistically significant signal for various pollutants and COPD incidence. However, due to the nature of the study they could not quantitate the correlation coefficient for smoking. For COPD, the strongest public health message should be "Don't smoke!"
My wife and I live in Illinois in a 4 bedroom home that has a natural gas powered furnace, gas powered water heater and a gas dryer along with our stove. Am I correct in assuming all these appliances offer the same potential threat as a gas stove? Or, in our case, four times the threat?
Katelyn, a little while back you had a survey about topics that you could expand coverage to. I think a YLE take on contemporary subjects like this is worthwhile. It is going to be tricky anytime politics is involved, but you did quite well with that regarding COVID and I think this could be a fine fit here.
As it is a guest post, it was missing some of your voice/style, but that's okay. But I think the science-y part was only good not great. With most YLE posts, I feel confident that there's been a comprehensive review of the literature. This article noted how NO2 isn't good for us, no controversy there. And it cited a nice 2013 meta-analysis. But it neglected to include another 2013 meta-analysis that found no link to gas but a link to open flames. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24429203/ I just don't feel like I got a full sense of the available literature here.
Often you have gone to lengths to tell us about the strengths and weaknesses of various studies, but the authors here make no attempt to evaluate the science or add context. A 40-study meta-analysis is presented with the same authority as a measurement of 15 exhaust devices, but that doesn't quite feel right.
One thing I expected to see is some absolute numbers about the level of NO2 that is considered harmful. But this detail is missing in the article. I only know that gas stoves are relatively more dangerous. Relative risk is useful, but It would be good to understand the absolute numbers in a sensible way. Exactly how much NO2 does a gas stove contribute? The authors note that "concentrations can get high" but don't say what high is.
The authors also a good job bringing up proper ventilation as a key step we can take to reduce risk. It would be nice to know more about how much better proper ventilation is (either relative or absolute). I take their point that poor ventilation is relatively ineffective, but that point can be made better with numbers.
I am glad the authors addressed the real life challenges of switching from gas stoves to another kind, and that those are real obstacles for everyday folks. That's important and right for your newsletter.
Lastly, you also are often careful to call out things that are relevant but just not covered by the studies in your post. The authors haven't here. If the concern is asthma, are their bigger things I should worry about before replacing a gas stove? If the concern is NO2, are their other sources of NO2 in my house that I might prioritize? Does what I cook also make a difference?
Maybe it is asking a whole lot to try to cram that much into a single post in a timely enough fashion that it is still relevant. This was a good step in finding ways to keep providing value through YLE that can be improved upon.
And in fact - as I noted in my comment below - the 2013 meta-analysis cited actually did not find a correlation between NO2 levels and asthma, only gas stove use and asthma, which the authors attempted to address at the end, albeit not definitively. That definitely seems worth getting into - as do the other relative risk factors for asthma and how they compare to gas stove usage.
I live in rural Vermont where natural gas is not an option. Many in Vermont heat their homes, cook their meals and heat hot water with propane, a gas. “Gas” is sometimes used to mean talking nonsense, which I don’t believe that is the intent here but it would be helpful to know what is meant by “gas” in the plethora of articles attesting to the health risks of “gas”. Even nitrous oxide, the bad boy of using “gas” (also released by heating with wood-very popular up here) however defined, is a gas. So come on. Help us out. Propane?
Katelyn, I regard you as a national treasure and a personal one, since I rely on you above all other sources for guidance for me and my family in coping with covid. Among the things I prize about YLE are the clarity with which you present abstruse data and also the objectivity. In our painfully polarized moment, it is not only refreshing but also reassuring to find presentation of information free of any hint of a political agenda. It pains me that this post, obviously written mostly by your partners, has a different tone. The title refers to the "culture war," and the tone and substance of the whole thing suggests a thrust from one side in that war. I wish you would avoid partnering with others who may be credentialed but lack your exemplary objectivity. Love you, too,
Thanks so much for this constructive feedback. I strongly believe that science communication and advocacy should be different. I can see where this blurs the line. Framing is a big part of it. I’ll get better. Thanks again!
Thank you, Katelyn. I, too, have the question about how the nitrous dioxide affects adults. Also, is there any difference between natural gas and propane? Lyn
Thank you for this info. We have a gas fireplace that looks like a wood burning stove and run it for several hours a day during winter. Is this also a cause for concern?
When I moved to Tennessee, I noticed that it was common to have gas fireplaces with no ventilation whatsoever. In the house I moved into, that was the case-no chimney, no vent. When we had to run the fireplace for a couple days when the main HVAC went out, I could tell that the air quality noticeably decreased and affected my cognition to a moderate degree. Not surprising, given that you're probably burning a higher volume of gas in a fireplace for a longer period of time than when cooking on a range.
This is obviously a health hazard. One shouldn't burn any kind of gas in a confined space.
Thanks. My gas fireplace is fully enclosed and vents through the attic and out through the roof. Hope that's safe.
If it's enclosed by glass, it probably vents to the outside (or if you can see the chimney/vent), in which case, it's probably not a big concern. If it is open to your house, I would think it's a similar risk to a gas stove, and you'd want better ventilation.
Thanks. It does have a glass front and vents through the attic and then out through the roof. Was a bit concerned, thanks.
I loved those when I lived in Seattle. My friend had a gas furnace but also a gas fireplace insert in her old chimney fireplace, and it was so delightful to have a little fire going when I visited. Plus, when she was in the family room, then she didn't heat the rest of the house as warm. I'm a lot sadder to give up my gas fireplace than my stove!
This seems like a "Correlation is not causation" weak article. Every few years there is a new likely cause for the increase in childhood asthma. There have been mites, cats, dogs, birds, mold, PM2.5, formaldehyde, fragrances, plasticizers, ventilation and more. There needs to be an all-cause asthma index similar to the (Disability Adjusted Life Years (DALYs) so one can compare the risk factor of a pet bird to a gas stove, or the gigantic PM increase from cooking on an electric stove in a house.
I largely agree with you. PH is terrible at communicating risk, and I hope this is built out.
Causality in public health is built on a lot of things and I think this case has it: Biological plausibility, dose response, consistency. I included this in a draft but took it out in the end. Maybe a framing towards this in the future would be more beneficial
I've been following this topic with interest as I've always chosen gas over electric. One interesting analysis would be if there are any increased public health risks that have been studied with electric over gas, such as increased burns in children/people, kitchen/house fires from inappropriate use (warming a home), etc. I have no idea, but before we throw out all our gas ranges and opt for electric because of nitrogen dioxide concerns I would want to make sure we aren't trading one 'evil' for another in terms of risk. Just because we achieve health gains from one doesn't mean there are not health risks from the other.
One benefit of gas over electric is certainly the increased ability to titrate the amount of heat delivered, and to instantly turn the heat source off with gas, whereas electric remains hot after being turned off.
I love my Breville Indiction cooker more than someone should actually love any appliance. (I don’t work for the company!) it actually senses the temp of the pan so a pot of spaghetti will just slowly boil. Can also be used as a slow cooker.. nothing burns. Also… it can get the pan hotter then our powerful Italian gas range ever could. I promise… look it up. We turned off our gas when I realized I would never cook on it again
Exactly. We switched to an induction stove a while back and it's great.
I've seen several pieces about the impact on children. I'm curious about the impact on adults. I live in a child-free home with a gas stove and gas fireplace. Should I be concerned for the adults in my home or is the primary impact on children?
Ooh, good question! I had a gas stove and fireplace for years. My fireplace was gas-fronted and vented outside, so that wasn't a big deal. After learning about the dangers of gas stoves, I made sure when I used the stove OR oven, I turned on my range hood (which vented outside; where I lived in WA, it was against code to have a gas stove without that).
I became a foodie a few years back. I bet I've seen a thousand videos and articles since then, and I can't think of a single one that did not use a gas stove or oven, if it showed anything. When you turn the knob, a gas stove responds instantly and precisely. Nothing electric is like that, just saying.
I lived with gas for years in TX, but for years I've felt all-electric smells better, is safer with no open flame, and with a glasstop or induction stove is way easier to keep clean. I've had electric for 30 years now and I can deal with its shortcomings.
I think this is probably much more of an issue in tightly wrapped newer construction. Forty years ago that was not a thing.
And just thinking, working in a restaurant kitchen has got to be as bad, if not worse. Where's OSHA in this?
You can get the same cooking advantage using induction. It's just as fast and gets just as hot. You do need to make sure that all your pans and such work with an induction range.
Restaurants usually have huge, industrial-strength range hoods that provide great ventilation, and lots of fire safety.
I have to say, ever since cooking with an induction cooktop, I have not missed gas.
Readers of YLE might want to visit Jerry LeClaire's' excellent substack Indivisible High Ground newsletter where an article came out today serendipitously on how the new House committee Chair that oversees energy issues and consumer protection related to the same, is turning the mission there around somewhat to promote greater fossil fuel production. I assume that means protection for gas stove manufactury and use. F Y I.
Do you have a link? Would love to read
https://jerrysindivisible.substack.com/p/cathys-climate-change-coming-out
Jerry's site is a find. About eastern WA politics there's not a better. And he's not particularly on one side of the aisle or the other, which I like.
I was out of town...sorry to be so late. Thx Mike!
I have lived most of my life in homes with electric stoves, but I now have a gas one, and, unfortunately, I much prefer cooking with it, so I am trying to figure out what to do. I have heard that induction stoves mimic many of the qualities of gas stoves, but they are expensive. I also have a gas clothes dryer, but it is in the basement, so I am hoping it doesn't produce the same problems as the stoves.
I just bought one too! About two months ago for a remodel, which I’m now regretting given this info
Look for an induction "burner" at Ikea. Takes up a bit of counter space, but works great for those one-pan meals.
Before I even realized the issues of gas stoves… I purchased a Brevelle Induction cooker and an electric pressure cooker. We live in a rental… but I fell weirdly in love with these appliances and actually cut the gas off. The point of my comment is that you can cook even better… smarter… with the right appliances.
In my home state, there is a financial penalty if you remove a gas stove or heating system. The Corporation Commission says the gas companies need the income to make up for purchasing expensive gas during a massive cold snap when gas wells stopped producing. The state actually charges you money if you put in solar then use electric appliances.
A couple of points to emphasize: vented had equipment like furnaces and fireplaces are safer for indoor air, though still bad for the climate. Also no thugs are going to break down your door and take away your stove. Any bans would be banned sale of new gas stoves.
My evidence base is weak ( a comment in the NYT), but here is my question: When the data were gathered, was the strongest correlation with those who used open gas flames for heating as opposed to cooking?
Regarding the COPD linked study, there is a statistically significant signal for various pollutants and COPD incidence. However, due to the nature of the study they could not quantitate the correlation coefficient for smoking. For COPD, the strongest public health message should be "Don't smoke!"
Thanks for the work you do.
My wife and I live in Illinois in a 4 bedroom home that has a natural gas powered furnace, gas powered water heater and a gas dryer along with our stove. Am I correct in assuming all these appliances offer the same potential threat as a gas stove? Or, in our case, four times the threat?
Katelyn, a little while back you had a survey about topics that you could expand coverage to. I think a YLE take on contemporary subjects like this is worthwhile. It is going to be tricky anytime politics is involved, but you did quite well with that regarding COVID and I think this could be a fine fit here.
As it is a guest post, it was missing some of your voice/style, but that's okay. But I think the science-y part was only good not great. With most YLE posts, I feel confident that there's been a comprehensive review of the literature. This article noted how NO2 isn't good for us, no controversy there. And it cited a nice 2013 meta-analysis. But it neglected to include another 2013 meta-analysis that found no link to gas but a link to open flames. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24429203/ I just don't feel like I got a full sense of the available literature here.
Often you have gone to lengths to tell us about the strengths and weaknesses of various studies, but the authors here make no attempt to evaluate the science or add context. A 40-study meta-analysis is presented with the same authority as a measurement of 15 exhaust devices, but that doesn't quite feel right.
One thing I expected to see is some absolute numbers about the level of NO2 that is considered harmful. But this detail is missing in the article. I only know that gas stoves are relatively more dangerous. Relative risk is useful, but It would be good to understand the absolute numbers in a sensible way. Exactly how much NO2 does a gas stove contribute? The authors note that "concentrations can get high" but don't say what high is.
The authors also a good job bringing up proper ventilation as a key step we can take to reduce risk. It would be nice to know more about how much better proper ventilation is (either relative or absolute). I take their point that poor ventilation is relatively ineffective, but that point can be made better with numbers.
I am glad the authors addressed the real life challenges of switching from gas stoves to another kind, and that those are real obstacles for everyday folks. That's important and right for your newsletter.
Lastly, you also are often careful to call out things that are relevant but just not covered by the studies in your post. The authors haven't here. If the concern is asthma, are their bigger things I should worry about before replacing a gas stove? If the concern is NO2, are their other sources of NO2 in my house that I might prioritize? Does what I cook also make a difference?
Maybe it is asking a whole lot to try to cram that much into a single post in a timely enough fashion that it is still relevant. This was a good step in finding ways to keep providing value through YLE that can be improved upon.
And in fact - as I noted in my comment below - the 2013 meta-analysis cited actually did not find a correlation between NO2 levels and asthma, only gas stove use and asthma, which the authors attempted to address at the end, albeit not definitively. That definitely seems worth getting into - as do the other relative risk factors for asthma and how they compare to gas stove usage.
What about gas fire places? Do they pose a similar risk as gas cook tops/stoves?
I live in rural Vermont where natural gas is not an option. Many in Vermont heat their homes, cook their meals and heat hot water with propane, a gas. “Gas” is sometimes used to mean talking nonsense, which I don’t believe that is the intent here but it would be helpful to know what is meant by “gas” in the plethora of articles attesting to the health risks of “gas”. Even nitrous oxide, the bad boy of using “gas” (also released by heating with wood-very popular up here) however defined, is a gas. So come on. Help us out. Propane?