Well stated, thank you. Years ago my Microbiology instructor said that the 21st century will be the century of the virus. I know the scientific community believes this but our new admin doesn't seem to understand that what you cannot see can kill you. Did we not learn anything from the pandemic? And why is our HHS run by lawyers? I wish we would change that.
HHS includes the administration of many programs that pay bills, and there are lots of lawsuits. I wouldn't demonize the lawyers at HHS, they have a role to play. There are plenty of scientists and statisticians there too, but, now they will be hounded out of their jobs to be replaced by MAGA sycophants. Now you may really worry because it's going to disable a large, highly impactful branch of government.
Just as Trump, after becoming infected with Covid during his last administration, was able to avail himself of intensive, top quality medical treatment that was not accessible to most Americans, he and his billionaire cronies will continue to be able to get whatever drugs they need or want during this administration. An electorate comprised of citizens who are sick and weak won't be able to muster against the coming repression. When looking at the possible appointment of "A Worm Ate My Brain" Kennedy, it's worthwhile remembering that kings attacking others' realms in fourteenth century Europe won their battles not with siege engines or battering rams, but with plague infested garments thrown over city walls.
Yes, go ahead and call. But in my state (FL), they're ALL Republicans and now ALL MAGA. they do what they're told. I would imagine that these woefully inadequate and unqualified candidates for Cabinet positions will get the GOP approval. Elections have consequences, and for whatever reasons, the US voters have put folks in power who will do harm. Lots of it. Your phone calls won't make a damn bit of difference.
Excellent post. It reminds me of a former medical colleague who would provide an answer to his patients who only wanted "natural" compounds to treat their diseases. He would ask them if they wanted to take hemlock or strychnine.
Thank you for this. All of *this* (gestures wildly) feels like a good reminder about the ripple effect of elections. It's not just one person or party—it can shape policy that has ripple effects for generations.
I am truly terrified of RFK. It is a tragedy that such a huge portion of the population in the US is so poorly educated in science that they will believe his B.S. It is imperative that we improve science education in our schools starting in grammar school. That doesn't look so good either as the Dept of Ed is being threatened. Feeling sad.
A salient point is being missed: RFK, Jr. knows what he is talking about, because his name is Kennedy, of Camelot fame by lineage. Look, it got him into Harvard (legacy and money) and UVA, highly prestigious higher learning institutions, so how can he be wrong? From those institutions, he received stellar education in sciences by majoring in history and literature. With his rise (potentially) to head of Health and Human Services he will be able to fall back on his dalliances with various environmental groups to promote his conspiracy , vaccine, and food additives theories with newfound scientific thought. John Snow, Robert Koch, Louis Pasteur and the like be damned. We all know that the expanding human population will be able to subsist on naturally grown foodstuffs, and appealing, tasteful, bounty will be restored without the assistance of pesticides or flavorings. Thankfully, there will be less of them, and iron lungs and crutches will be plentiful. I can't wait.
Can YLE comment on the civil lawsuit Kobach in Kansas (the first of five states planning to do so) is filing against Pfizer about the COVID vaccine? It seems to be another "vaccines are bad and were rushed to market" argument.
Here’s a link to a good article by Lee Fang of Real Clear Investigations. The Texas case was dismissed by the Texas District Court last month. The judge ruled that Pfizer has absolute immunity via the EUA. Texas has filed an appeal. I think the Kansas case is still pending in the Kansas district court.
Kristen, I wasn't aware that he had said that about filing charges against journal editors but it fits in with his general philosophy of how things should be. Every time I learn about something new he is saying, the same question comes to mind: Did he get vaccinated as a child? Did he have the advantages of modern medicine as he grew up? What about his own children?
YLE,/ Dr. Panthagani, what would you suggest that policy makers or folks that generally are opposed to right-wing lunacy do?
I think the principal reason that a someone like RFK Jr. appeals to 40% of the population is that there actually IS something wrong with the public health system, medical care, food production, pollution, American-style-stress levels, etc.
And the political party that should be opposed to RFK Jr. are or were complicit in creating a culture & environment where ultimately RFK Jr.'s ideas are attractive.
RFK Jr. is a “right wing lunatic”? He’s a life long Democrat and more politically aligned with Greta Thunberg than “right wing lunatics”. You’re right about ordinary people on both sides losing trust in our healthcare agencies and demanding a shake up. And there’s good reason for that as more information becomes public. The Covid pandemic shined the spotlight on these agencies and what we saw was troubling (a subject for another day). RFK Jr. ran for president as a Democrat and the party dumped on him. So, in revenge, he threw his support to Trump. This appointment is his reward. I don’t expect he’ll get confirmed and, if by chance he is, he’ll soon resign under duress. Drs. Bhattacharya, Markary, Weldon and Nesheiwat will keep him on a short leash if he somehow gets confirmed.
That’s just not what happened. He was a lifelong Democrat (of course), who left the party. And exactly how were Democrats complicit in creating the anarchic system we have today, where every single regulation Dems tried to pass to rein in the desire of Big Ag to push whatever they felt like into their foods was blocked by Republicans in their zeal to dismantle government?
It does suggest that no one - or mostly nobody - could be wrong about everything all the time. RFK Jr may be right about Big Ag, but he's not being asked to lead the largest ag program in the world, but the largest Health Administration and Insurance program in this country. Agreed that being wrong about health care, vaccines, and science doesn't mean he's wrong about everything. But, what he advocates will harm or kill millions over the years. Want to bet on it?
I’m not sure I understand what you’re trying to say. Are you saying that RFK jr. is still a Democrat at heart and that his and other Democrats attempts to regulate Big Agriculture for the better were thwarted by Republicans? It appears you agree with RFK Jr vis a vis BigAg.
Lots of "logical leaps" in your statement. The fact he was once a Democrat means that he can't be a lunatic? of course he could be a Democrat who went crazy or he is still a Democrat and crazy. By the way, what's wrong with Greta Thunberg? Seems like she hasn't been proven wrong about anything, studied her science and spoke her mind - or did you make that leap that she's crazy too? However he got there, RFK Jr is a dangerous politician who advocates harmful ideas and practices.
My point is that RFK Jr., a life long Democrat and an avid environmentalist, can hardly be considered a right wing extremist. He is much more closely aligned with Greta Thundberg on many things and nobody would ever consider her to be a right wing extremist. Whatever RFK Jr's positions are on vaccines and pills, I believe his is correct in his position on regulatory capture. Big Pharma supports over half the budget of our health agency, is a major advertiser for our media and medical journals and funds a lot of our university medical research. We need more independence. A good start would be to ban direct to consumer drug advertising.
Not logical to say that if people take heroin it's because there is something wrong with the choices on the medical shelf. And the reasons why people support RFK Jr and nature fallacy may have nothing to do with medicine, or public health, but a whole lot more to do with the Section 230 of the Federal Code - which insulated internet providers and content providers from ANY legal responsibility - no matter what the harm done. And the fact people trust internet gurus and "crowd sourcing" influencers more than scientists and experts.
You mention the Federal Code. Have you considered why folks are resorting to information on the internet?
Well, first, people are living miserable lives. People resorting to heroin are miserable.
Poor people live miserable, unhealthy lives. All other sorts of people from various economic classes are miserable.
Second, there are many little reasons why folks are so miserable. But ultimately, it comes down to the concentration of power and money. Corporations, banks, and Wall Street buy their candidates and judges. And these corrupt policy makers turn the cogs of "government" into a Dark Ages countryside ruled by a horrible war lord.
Regarding my criticism of public health and medicine:
Unhealthy people seek treatment, usually in the form of medication. When often the solutions are found in:
-eating healthy foods, exercise outdoors (in non-existent parks),
-breathe healthy air (but promotion of fossil fuel & absolutely no regulation of polluters promotes polluted air)
-And on and on. But these solutions are not promoted by regular doctors. And public health is by and large even less than a skeleton of what it should be.
I worked in public health for 10 years and hold a masters in public health. I know the state of public health in Texas. And know the good parts about Texas public health and the bad parts.
My wife is a family practice physician, so hear about issues related to the promotion of health and the prevention of morbidity and mortality in the U.S.
The state of medicine ("health care") and public health systems have everything to do with why people are so desperate to believe someone like RFK Jr.
Thank you for this. I spent 3 decades teaching my students about logical fallacies and how to recognize propaganda techniques. I'm hoping those children grew up into adults who can think critically and not fall into the trap of outrage-mongering misinformation. These days I would probably be fired for teaching such things.
Compared to 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago, death rates in the US from infectious diseases are way down. So people live longer, a good thing. And eventually they die of a chronic (non-infectious) disease. This is not the only reason for an increase in chronic disease mortality, but it is an important one.
Also, there has been a roughly 80 to 90% decrease (depending on the state) in prevalence of adult tobacco use since the first big Surgeon General's report on smoking in 1964. The incidence rates of heart attack, stroke, COPD and many cancers have fallen as a result -- even as the increased prevalence of obesity has tended to push the rates of some of these upward. The epidemiology of such chronic diseases is complex. Diet changes alone are not going to be the answer..... When I went for my 50th high school reunion a few years ago, I came to understand that there was a whole group of my classmates who had lost their tobacco-smoking fathers to heart attacks by the time we were in high school. That does not happen at anything like the frequency that it did.... Most of the important drivers of chronic disease incidence and mortality happen outside the hospital and the doctor's office. As some wise person said, "The fact that aspirin will cure your headache does not mean that your headache was caused by a lack of aspirin."
I agree wholeheartedly with the first half of your statement. Plenty of (overwhelming) evidence to demonstrate that. Highest health expenditure per capita in the world, high share of Out of Pocket expenditures (rated least effective by WHO), and declining average life expectancy (general population), and increasing infant/child/maternal mortality over the past 5 years. But, what evidence to say that it can't get worse? MAGA policies call for eliminating Medicaid subsidies for infants and low-income people, anti-vaccine and anti-science nominees in the Trump cabinet, letting unsafe natural products be promoted everywhere? I see things getting worse, much worse.
When I read this headline, I assumed it referred to pulling out of WHO. What we're getting into is also dependent on what we're getting out of. Terrifying.
Thank you for highlighting this. I propose there is a mirror fallacy: the appeal to technology. Not dissimilar to marketers trumpeting “all-natural”, other marketers position their products as “scientific, medical, modern” and therefore better than outdated alternatives. I’m thinking infant formula, or brain health supplements, or even - ironically - homeopathic flu treatments that advertise their clinical studies (combined with appeal to nature vibes.) Marketers are evil geniuses 🤦🏻♀️
Trump's agenda is to kill as many Americans as possible over the next 4 years; just like the millions he killed between January 2020 and January 2021. Unfortunately, Trump is going to wind up killing the dregs of our society, most of whom voted for fascism and Trump in 2016, 2020, and 2024.
If only the arrows of "poetic justice" were so accurate. Abandonment of amazingly effective vaccines and medicines for a "natural" approach will result in a resurgence of the most virulent, transmissible diseases know to humankind, and vanquished in "developed countries" which vaccinated or treated them. The millions will die will largely be innocent children, particularly under-fives, their original and last sin being born to parents who failed to educate themselves when it was available and chose witchraft, conspiracy hokum and snake oil commerical BS over what we know from history, evidence-based science to save lives.
Well stated, thank you. Years ago my Microbiology instructor said that the 21st century will be the century of the virus. I know the scientific community believes this but our new admin doesn't seem to understand that what you cannot see can kill you. Did we not learn anything from the pandemic? And why is our HHS run by lawyers? I wish we would change that.
Doctors take care of people. Lawyers take care of money. And there, sadly, is the answer to your question.
HHS includes the administration of many programs that pay bills, and there are lots of lawsuits. I wouldn't demonize the lawyers at HHS, they have a role to play. There are plenty of scientists and statisticians there too, but, now they will be hounded out of their jobs to be replaced by MAGA sycophants. Now you may really worry because it's going to disable a large, highly impactful branch of government.
I understand fed workers are under a lot of pressure and my intention was not to demonize them, just wish the leads had more scientific expertise.
Just as Trump, after becoming infected with Covid during his last administration, was able to avail himself of intensive, top quality medical treatment that was not accessible to most Americans, he and his billionaire cronies will continue to be able to get whatever drugs they need or want during this administration. An electorate comprised of citizens who are sick and weak won't be able to muster against the coming repression. When looking at the possible appointment of "A Worm Ate My Brain" Kennedy, it's worthwhile remembering that kings attacking others' realms in fourteenth century Europe won their battles not with siege engines or battering rams, but with plague infested garments thrown over city walls.
Thank you for spelling out these potential problems with RFL Jr. so clearly. We all need to call our Senators and Reps and tell them DO NOT CONFIRM!
Yes, go ahead and call. But in my state (FL), they're ALL Republicans and now ALL MAGA. they do what they're told. I would imagine that these woefully inadequate and unqualified candidates for Cabinet positions will get the GOP approval. Elections have consequences, and for whatever reasons, the US voters have put folks in power who will do harm. Lots of it. Your phone calls won't make a damn bit of difference.
All ready have
Excellent post. It reminds me of a former medical colleague who would provide an answer to his patients who only wanted "natural" compounds to treat their diseases. He would ask them if they wanted to take hemlock or strychnine.
Or maybe arsenic?
Thank you for this. All of *this* (gestures wildly) feels like a good reminder about the ripple effect of elections. It's not just one person or party—it can shape policy that has ripple effects for generations.
I am truly terrified of RFK. It is a tragedy that such a huge portion of the population in the US is so poorly educated in science that they will believe his B.S. It is imperative that we improve science education in our schools starting in grammar school. That doesn't look so good either as the Dept of Ed is being threatened. Feeling sad.
A salient point is being missed: RFK, Jr. knows what he is talking about, because his name is Kennedy, of Camelot fame by lineage. Look, it got him into Harvard (legacy and money) and UVA, highly prestigious higher learning institutions, so how can he be wrong? From those institutions, he received stellar education in sciences by majoring in history and literature. With his rise (potentially) to head of Health and Human Services he will be able to fall back on his dalliances with various environmental groups to promote his conspiracy , vaccine, and food additives theories with newfound scientific thought. John Snow, Robert Koch, Louis Pasteur and the like be damned. We all know that the expanding human population will be able to subsist on naturally grown foodstuffs, and appealing, tasteful, bounty will be restored without the assistance of pesticides or flavorings. Thankfully, there will be less of them, and iron lungs and crutches will be plentiful. I can't wait.
Can YLE comment on the civil lawsuit Kobach in Kansas (the first of five states planning to do so) is filing against Pfizer about the COVID vaccine? It seems to be another "vaccines are bad and were rushed to market" argument.
Here’s a link to a good article by Lee Fang of Real Clear Investigations. The Texas case was dismissed by the Texas District Court last month. The judge ruled that Pfizer has absolute immunity via the EUA. Texas has filed an appeal. I think the Kansas case is still pending in the Kansas district court.
https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2024/10/03/nondisclosure_vaccine_ad_blitz_sidestepped_transparency_rules_1062548.html
Kristen, I wasn't aware that he had said that about filing charges against journal editors but it fits in with his general philosophy of how things should be. Every time I learn about something new he is saying, the same question comes to mind: Did he get vaccinated as a child? Did he have the advantages of modern medicine as he grew up? What about his own children?
YLE,/ Dr. Panthagani, what would you suggest that policy makers or folks that generally are opposed to right-wing lunacy do?
I think the principal reason that a someone like RFK Jr. appeals to 40% of the population is that there actually IS something wrong with the public health system, medical care, food production, pollution, American-style-stress levels, etc.
And the political party that should be opposed to RFK Jr. are or were complicit in creating a culture & environment where ultimately RFK Jr.'s ideas are attractive.
RFK Jr. is a “right wing lunatic”? He’s a life long Democrat and more politically aligned with Greta Thunberg than “right wing lunatics”. You’re right about ordinary people on both sides losing trust in our healthcare agencies and demanding a shake up. And there’s good reason for that as more information becomes public. The Covid pandemic shined the spotlight on these agencies and what we saw was troubling (a subject for another day). RFK Jr. ran for president as a Democrat and the party dumped on him. So, in revenge, he threw his support to Trump. This appointment is his reward. I don’t expect he’ll get confirmed and, if by chance he is, he’ll soon resign under duress. Drs. Bhattacharya, Markary, Weldon and Nesheiwat will keep him on a short leash if he somehow gets confirmed.
That’s just not what happened. He was a lifelong Democrat (of course), who left the party. And exactly how were Democrats complicit in creating the anarchic system we have today, where every single regulation Dems tried to pass to rein in the desire of Big Ag to push whatever they felt like into their foods was blocked by Republicans in their zeal to dismantle government?
It does suggest that no one - or mostly nobody - could be wrong about everything all the time. RFK Jr may be right about Big Ag, but he's not being asked to lead the largest ag program in the world, but the largest Health Administration and Insurance program in this country. Agreed that being wrong about health care, vaccines, and science doesn't mean he's wrong about everything. But, what he advocates will harm or kill millions over the years. Want to bet on it?
I’m not sure I understand what you’re trying to say. Are you saying that RFK jr. is still a Democrat at heart and that his and other Democrats attempts to regulate Big Agriculture for the better were thwarted by Republicans? It appears you agree with RFK Jr vis a vis BigAg.
Lots of "logical leaps" in your statement. The fact he was once a Democrat means that he can't be a lunatic? of course he could be a Democrat who went crazy or he is still a Democrat and crazy. By the way, what's wrong with Greta Thunberg? Seems like she hasn't been proven wrong about anything, studied her science and spoke her mind - or did you make that leap that she's crazy too? However he got there, RFK Jr is a dangerous politician who advocates harmful ideas and practices.
My point is that RFK Jr., a life long Democrat and an avid environmentalist, can hardly be considered a right wing extremist. He is much more closely aligned with Greta Thundberg on many things and nobody would ever consider her to be a right wing extremist. Whatever RFK Jr's positions are on vaccines and pills, I believe his is correct in his position on regulatory capture. Big Pharma supports over half the budget of our health agency, is a major advertiser for our media and medical journals and funds a lot of our university medical research. We need more independence. A good start would be to ban direct to consumer drug advertising.
Not logical to say that if people take heroin it's because there is something wrong with the choices on the medical shelf. And the reasons why people support RFK Jr and nature fallacy may have nothing to do with medicine, or public health, but a whole lot more to do with the Section 230 of the Federal Code - which insulated internet providers and content providers from ANY legal responsibility - no matter what the harm done. And the fact people trust internet gurus and "crowd sourcing" influencers more than scientists and experts.
You mention the Federal Code. Have you considered why folks are resorting to information on the internet?
Well, first, people are living miserable lives. People resorting to heroin are miserable.
Poor people live miserable, unhealthy lives. All other sorts of people from various economic classes are miserable.
Second, there are many little reasons why folks are so miserable. But ultimately, it comes down to the concentration of power and money. Corporations, banks, and Wall Street buy their candidates and judges. And these corrupt policy makers turn the cogs of "government" into a Dark Ages countryside ruled by a horrible war lord.
Regarding my criticism of public health and medicine:
Unhealthy people seek treatment, usually in the form of medication. When often the solutions are found in:
-eating healthy foods, exercise outdoors (in non-existent parks),
-breathe healthy air (but promotion of fossil fuel & absolutely no regulation of polluters promotes polluted air)
-receiving adequate education (i.e. healthy eating, exercise, family planning/sex education, etc)
-restriction of unhealthy ingredients in foods,
-And on and on. But these solutions are not promoted by regular doctors. And public health is by and large even less than a skeleton of what it should be.
I worked in public health for 10 years and hold a masters in public health. I know the state of public health in Texas. And know the good parts about Texas public health and the bad parts.
My wife is a family practice physician, so hear about issues related to the promotion of health and the prevention of morbidity and mortality in the U.S.
The state of medicine ("health care") and public health systems have everything to do with why people are so desperate to believe someone like RFK Jr.
Thank you for this. I spent 3 decades teaching my students about logical fallacies and how to recognize propaganda techniques. I'm hoping those children grew up into adults who can think critically and not fall into the trap of outrage-mongering misinformation. These days I would probably be fired for teaching such things.
Compared to 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago, death rates in the US from infectious diseases are way down. So people live longer, a good thing. And eventually they die of a chronic (non-infectious) disease. This is not the only reason for an increase in chronic disease mortality, but it is an important one.
Also, there has been a roughly 80 to 90% decrease (depending on the state) in prevalence of adult tobacco use since the first big Surgeon General's report on smoking in 1964. The incidence rates of heart attack, stroke, COPD and many cancers have fallen as a result -- even as the increased prevalence of obesity has tended to push the rates of some of these upward. The epidemiology of such chronic diseases is complex. Diet changes alone are not going to be the answer..... When I went for my 50th high school reunion a few years ago, I came to understand that there was a whole group of my classmates who had lost their tobacco-smoking fathers to heart attacks by the time we were in high school. That does not happen at anything like the frequency that it did.... Most of the important drivers of chronic disease incidence and mortality happen outside the hospital and the doctor's office. As some wise person said, "The fact that aspirin will cure your headache does not mean that your headache was caused by a lack of aspirin."
Health care in the US is a train wreck in so many ways, it can't really get any worse that it is now.
On the other hand, just when you think it can't get any worse, it gets worse.
I agree wholeheartedly with the first half of your statement. Plenty of (overwhelming) evidence to demonstrate that. Highest health expenditure per capita in the world, high share of Out of Pocket expenditures (rated least effective by WHO), and declining average life expectancy (general population), and increasing infant/child/maternal mortality over the past 5 years. But, what evidence to say that it can't get worse? MAGA policies call for eliminating Medicaid subsidies for infants and low-income people, anti-vaccine and anti-science nominees in the Trump cabinet, letting unsafe natural products be promoted everywhere? I see things getting worse, much worse.
When I read this headline, I assumed it referred to pulling out of WHO. What we're getting into is also dependent on what we're getting out of. Terrifying.
Thank you for highlighting this. I propose there is a mirror fallacy: the appeal to technology. Not dissimilar to marketers trumpeting “all-natural”, other marketers position their products as “scientific, medical, modern” and therefore better than outdated alternatives. I’m thinking infant formula, or brain health supplements, or even - ironically - homeopathic flu treatments that advertise their clinical studies (combined with appeal to nature vibes.) Marketers are evil geniuses 🤦🏻♀️
Trump's agenda is to kill as many Americans as possible over the next 4 years; just like the millions he killed between January 2020 and January 2021. Unfortunately, Trump is going to wind up killing the dregs of our society, most of whom voted for fascism and Trump in 2016, 2020, and 2024.
If only the arrows of "poetic justice" were so accurate. Abandonment of amazingly effective vaccines and medicines for a "natural" approach will result in a resurgence of the most virulent, transmissible diseases know to humankind, and vanquished in "developed countries" which vaccinated or treated them. The millions will die will largely be innocent children, particularly under-fives, their original and last sin being born to parents who failed to educate themselves when it was available and chose witchraft, conspiracy hokum and snake oil commerical BS over what we know from history, evidence-based science to save lives.
"Unfortunately"?