Individualism is just a polite way of saying selfishness and ignorance. Selfish because you don't care what happens to other people, only yourself. Ignorance because you think you are smarter than those that have studied these diseases and the ways to cure/prevent them.
Katelyn, if you want to really study a troubling epidemic, study the epidemic of ignorance and selfishness that is growing not only in the US but also globally.
I got the measles in 1961 while at boarding school. The nurse laughed, said the spots on my face were just pimples, and refused to look at my forearms. Within a few days dozens of other kids fell ill.
I had a scary home life and insisted on recovering in my dorm. One night I hallucinated--I had to count backwards accurately from 400 or the world would end. Got up, went to the bathroom, threw water on my red-hot face, and couldn't recall which room I lived in! Had to quietly open door after door until I found a room with an empty bed.
The dorm mother finally insisted I return home (I hope the cab driver was immune!). My mother's psychosis abated enough for her to do some mothering, so I lay in bed for a week or so with the blinds closed; reading and TV were prohibited to prevent blindness. She fed me milk toast (which is actually quite tasty).
I probably had no long-lasting effects, since I'm healthy in my late 70s. But the danger is certainly real. I'm always horror-struck when I read about parents refusing to vaccinate their children.
That was the same year I got drafted (prelude to Vietnam war). Vaccinations covering every tropical disease for fresh draftees were done late on a Friday, so that we would have the weekend to recover. Try to visualize a long line of young guys in their underwear, with white-frock types on both sides, carrying what looked like bicycle pumps aimed at both arms "do not tense your arms up; the spray will cut you to the bone if you do"...
Saw that. it really did.
Could it be that some ancient grampas are the source of the anti-vax crowd ?
That's possible, I suppose, though my generation lived through the polio epidemic (and most of us had friends or knew adults who'd been crippled by it) and many of us also endured mumps, measles, and chickenpox--none of them fun.
I've read that the anti-vax crowd is taught their message by people who make money spewing anti-vax lies. Plus, of course, by social media that spreads the minions' lies far and wide.
In all seriousness, I think anti-vax stems from a quasi-religious objection to any form of risk mitigation, because they think of it as a form of hubris. Arguing that vaccines are safe and effective won't help in these cases, and could even make matters worse. In their minds, vaccination will always come with some sort of divine penalty down the road. Want to understand what's making them tick? Familiarize yourself with the Tower of Babel, Daedalus, Prometheus, and the Appointment in Samarra.
Political leaders must harness the courage to eliminate most exemptions, and for those deemed exempt, must require home schooling. Anti-vax groups must be treated like the danger the present, as one would with any other terror group.
This is the way it has been in New York since the measles outbreak here a few years ago. I do know a couple of people who have moved out of state due to this. It applies to all schools, not just public. It has been eye-opening to me that a few schools have closed due to losing students to homeschooling since this regulation has passed, especially since the school that closed near me tended to attract Progressive-leaning parents.
Yes, I'm not as closely involved with exactly what's going on in schools, as I don't have kids, but I am aware that in some communities there is great resistance to vaccination. Every now and then, outbreaks pop up, and it's usually linked to such communities that avoid vaccination for one reason or another. It scares me that some of these people are wandering around the aisles of local stores and risking others' health and life.
It all depends on how you spin it. If the tax credit uses a more generous definition of inflation than tax brackets, then it'll evolve into a financial stick. I should also add that my main concern is that people who don't get vaccinated pay for the risk they impose on others, more than any particular public health outcome. I feel like this is something that we often fail to recognize in this community.
Maybe eventually. I'd like to start with this approach simply because it's more prosaic - it could be slipped into an omnibus budget bill - and then we'd be able to measure the problem more easily. To the extent that it evolves into a stick over time, the extra revenue can be (and arguably should be) reinvested in vaccination campaigns.
A nominal tax on treatments for vaccine preventable diseases would be another approach.
Excellent post about the resurgence of measles and how to reengage with those who don't want their children (or themselves) vaccinated against it.
I have personal experience growing up with the consequences of measles. My mother contracted it when she was a girl in the 1940s and suffered near complete hearing loss. Seeing the lifelong consequences of that infection convinced me of the importance of vaccination against disease. You're right that so many people have grown up in a time where everyone was vaccinated against measles that it was extremely rare to encounter such consequences. Emphasizing what can and did happen when an unvaccinated child (or a child before vaccination, like my late mother)is infected with measles needs to be part of the discussion.
As always, this post is packed with useful, clearly laid out information. Thank you so much. I thought the reference to the issue of individualism particularly intriguing and would be interested in a link or two to what you and your colleague have been reading that you thought illuminating on this point.
I remember that when my mother was pregnant with her 4th child (I was 3rd) that she had German measles (just a faint memory as I was only about 4 years old at the time). It was very scary. That would have been in 1963!
I spend part of my retired life in Portugal. While it has the typical health care issues - not enough nurses, doctors and other concerns - the Portuguese are great about vaccinations. The willful ignorance now prevalent in the U.S. is not found here. It's one of the key reasons my daughter has chosen to live here and get her citizenship. Knowledge matters.
As someone who had measles at 13 months and a permanent PAS hearing impairment from it. I find it inexcusable and religious exemption is a scam. IIRC, only a couple of small churches have restrictions.
In an age when a woman can be forced to carry around a dead fetus, risking becoming septic, there ought to be a requirement that parents must apply for a court order to have their child declared exempt, only on medical grounds, and with a doctor's sworn testimony given in person, under penalty of loss of license and perjury charges.
Hmm. It is bad when critics of a practice sound like US gvmt press secretaries during wartime. Agentless passives are the prime vehicle for saying something without saying something. It is high time we said who was making the mistakes so we can see why they were made. And it was not ONLY thise bad disinformers on the Trumpian wing of public opinion. The CDC and WHO and other leaders made plenty of messaging mistakes. And they still do. Who would have guessed that we would stop counting new cases of covid? Follow the science, but dont use numbers! So, enough agentless passives. It really doesnt help nove our understanding forward.
I almost feel dumb asking, but should we be worried if we/our kids are fully vaccinated against measles? I’m thankful for my pediatrician’s office…after the 2019 epidemic, they started doing the second vaccine much earlier. So both of my kids were fully vaxed by two.
Not a dumb question at all. You shouldn't be worried. They are fully protected. It is very, very rare occasions that fully vaccinated people get measles. If they do, they usually have a milder illness and are less likely to spread it to other people.
Absolutely. One thing to keep in mind: They can still transmit measles. So I would be extra careful around kiddos less than 12 months old if you're in an outbreak area.
Let's be clear. Being recognized as an individual does one no good unless there is some group for comparison. A dead individual is no good to anyone, least of all, themselves and certainly no group of individuals. Individualism is a relative term, not an absolute. Being an individual within a group of individuals does not diminish my uniqueness. Quite the contrary. The more diverse the group I am a member of, the more unique I become. As a start, if vaccination is safe and keeps me alive, why the hell not!!!
As a child in the 50s and 60s, I had the misfortune to contract every single measles variable (red, German, etc.). I was LUCKY as I did not get the most serious side effects ...like my cousin who almost went blind, but ended up with reduced vision! This disease is no laughing matter and when I had children, you know they were vaccinated! I lived all over the country at the time as a Navy brat and I can assure you that Mom's everywhere breathed a huge sigh of relief when this vaccine and others came to fruition. It's unfortunate that our collective memory is so short as I have the scar on my face from writhing in delirium and hitting my head on the guard rail that shows this preventable disease and others like it should be extinct!!
Doctor, you propose that, “We cannot finger-wag our way to a healthier world.” Yet, the healthier world only comes about with an increased sense of community, taking responsibility for each other, and belief in the common good. If a "I'm free to do what I want" person takes that communication as upsetting and finger-wagging, I'd say to you, "Go ahead and wag your finger right in their face."
Thank you, this is all so important. You could also mention that babies born to women who were not vaccinated against measles and who are exposed during or just before pregnancy are at risk for congenital rubella syndrome. From the CDC: "Congenital rubella syndrome (CRS) is an illness in infants that results from maternal infection with rubella virus during pregnancy. When rubella infection occurs during early pregnancy, serious consequences–such as miscarriages, stillbirths, and a constellation of severe birth defects in infants–can result....Common congenital defects of CRS include cataracts, congenital heart disease, hearing impairment, and developmental delay." So today's unvaccinated little girls might grow up to be mothers of impaired children.
Rubella is actually a different illness entirely, although it’s an understandable mixup because it used to be called “German measles” and it’s part of the same combo vaccine (the R in MMR).
I personally find rubella fascinating because it’s generally an incredibly mild illness in children. The benefit in vaccinating kids is mostly in preventing the side effect you mentioned, congenital rubella syndrome, by preventing transmission to pregnant people. It’s a beautiful example of how vaccines work collectively.
Individualism is just a polite way of saying selfishness and ignorance. Selfish because you don't care what happens to other people, only yourself. Ignorance because you think you are smarter than those that have studied these diseases and the ways to cure/prevent them.
Katelyn, if you want to really study a troubling epidemic, study the epidemic of ignorance and selfishness that is growing not only in the US but also globally.
Willful ignorance, as distinguished from ordinary ignorance, to which we are all susceptible.
Absolutely, a very good clarification.
I got the measles in 1961 while at boarding school. The nurse laughed, said the spots on my face were just pimples, and refused to look at my forearms. Within a few days dozens of other kids fell ill.
I had a scary home life and insisted on recovering in my dorm. One night I hallucinated--I had to count backwards accurately from 400 or the world would end. Got up, went to the bathroom, threw water on my red-hot face, and couldn't recall which room I lived in! Had to quietly open door after door until I found a room with an empty bed.
The dorm mother finally insisted I return home (I hope the cab driver was immune!). My mother's psychosis abated enough for her to do some mothering, so I lay in bed for a week or so with the blinds closed; reading and TV were prohibited to prevent blindness. She fed me milk toast (which is actually quite tasty).
I probably had no long-lasting effects, since I'm healthy in my late 70s. But the danger is certainly real. I'm always horror-struck when I read about parents refusing to vaccinate their children.
(Slightly off topic)
Vaccine for measles first came out in 1963.
That was the same year I got drafted (prelude to Vietnam war). Vaccinations covering every tropical disease for fresh draftees were done late on a Friday, so that we would have the weekend to recover. Try to visualize a long line of young guys in their underwear, with white-frock types on both sides, carrying what looked like bicycle pumps aimed at both arms "do not tense your arms up; the spray will cut you to the bone if you do"...
Saw that. it really did.
Could it be that some ancient grampas are the source of the anti-vax crowd ?
That's possible, I suppose, though my generation lived through the polio epidemic (and most of us had friends or knew adults who'd been crippled by it) and many of us also endured mumps, measles, and chickenpox--none of them fun.
I've read that the anti-vax crowd is taught their message by people who make money spewing anti-vax lies. Plus, of course, by social media that spreads the minions' lies far and wide.
In all seriousness, I think anti-vax stems from a quasi-religious objection to any form of risk mitigation, because they think of it as a form of hubris. Arguing that vaccines are safe and effective won't help in these cases, and could even make matters worse. In their minds, vaccination will always come with some sort of divine penalty down the road. Want to understand what's making them tick? Familiarize yourself with the Tower of Babel, Daedalus, Prometheus, and the Appointment in Samarra.
Political leaders must harness the courage to eliminate most exemptions, and for those deemed exempt, must require home schooling. Anti-vax groups must be treated like the danger the present, as one would with any other terror group.
This is the way it has been in New York since the measles outbreak here a few years ago. I do know a couple of people who have moved out of state due to this. It applies to all schools, not just public. It has been eye-opening to me that a few schools have closed due to losing students to homeschooling since this regulation has passed, especially since the school that closed near me tended to attract Progressive-leaning parents.
Better to close schools than to allow them to remain as breeding grounds for preventable infectious diseases.
Oh, I completely agree. I was more saying that I was naive about how many kids aren't getting vaccinated.
Yes, I'm not as closely involved with exactly what's going on in schools, as I don't have kids, but I am aware that in some communities there is great resistance to vaccination. Every now and then, outbreaks pop up, and it's usually linked to such communities that avoid vaccination for one reason or another. It scares me that some of these people are wandering around the aisles of local stores and risking others' health and life.
What we need to do is add back child tax credits, but only for parents who vaccinate their kids.
I agree with your idea, but the carrot approach seldom works with these sort of zealots.
It all depends on how you spin it. If the tax credit uses a more generous definition of inflation than tax brackets, then it'll evolve into a financial stick. I should also add that my main concern is that people who don't get vaccinated pay for the risk they impose on others, more than any particular public health outcome. I feel like this is something that we often fail to recognize in this community.
I think there's no harm trying your idea. But it requires additional stronger measures, a multi-pronged approach.
Maybe eventually. I'd like to start with this approach simply because it's more prosaic - it could be slipped into an omnibus budget bill - and then we'd be able to measure the problem more easily. To the extent that it evolves into a stick over time, the extra revenue can be (and arguably should be) reinvested in vaccination campaigns.
A nominal tax on treatments for vaccine preventable diseases would be another approach.
How about misdemeanor failure to vaccinate charges, resulting in up to 6 mos in prison?
That might wake people up. :D
Excellent post about the resurgence of measles and how to reengage with those who don't want their children (or themselves) vaccinated against it.
I have personal experience growing up with the consequences of measles. My mother contracted it when she was a girl in the 1940s and suffered near complete hearing loss. Seeing the lifelong consequences of that infection convinced me of the importance of vaccination against disease. You're right that so many people have grown up in a time where everyone was vaccinated against measles that it was extremely rare to encounter such consequences. Emphasizing what can and did happen when an unvaccinated child (or a child before vaccination, like my late mother)is infected with measles needs to be part of the discussion.
As always, this post is packed with useful, clearly laid out information. Thank you so much. I thought the reference to the issue of individualism particularly intriguing and would be interested in a link or two to what you and your colleague have been reading that you thought illuminating on this point.
I've been thinking about this aspect non-stop. I will try and dig around to provide more context.
I had no idea! "Measles can wipe out a huge fraction of immune memory to other diseases, causing an increase in all-cause deaths. "
This is very scary, and I wonder whether any other infectious diseases behave similarly.
As an Ob/Gyn, I wish you would also talk about the effects of measles in pregnant women and the risks to the fetus. It is not minimal.
I remember that when my mother was pregnant with her 4th child (I was 3rd) that she had German measles (just a faint memory as I was only about 4 years old at the time). It was very scary. That would have been in 1963!
I spend part of my retired life in Portugal. While it has the typical health care issues - not enough nurses, doctors and other concerns - the Portuguese are great about vaccinations. The willful ignorance now prevalent in the U.S. is not found here. It's one of the key reasons my daughter has chosen to live here and get her citizenship. Knowledge matters.
As someone who had measles at 13 months and a permanent PAS hearing impairment from it. I find it inexcusable and religious exemption is a scam. IIRC, only a couple of small churches have restrictions.
Katelyn, while you're at it, how about Whooping Cough? Granted the current vaccine is not working well and we need a new one. The current rise is disconcerting. https://www.bu.edu/articles/2018/whooping-cough-on-the-rise/
In an age when a woman can be forced to carry around a dead fetus, risking becoming septic, there ought to be a requirement that parents must apply for a court order to have their child declared exempt, only on medical grounds, and with a doctor's sworn testimony given in person, under penalty of loss of license and perjury charges.
“Mistakes were made during the pandemic”.
Hmm. It is bad when critics of a practice sound like US gvmt press secretaries during wartime. Agentless passives are the prime vehicle for saying something without saying something. It is high time we said who was making the mistakes so we can see why they were made. And it was not ONLY thise bad disinformers on the Trumpian wing of public opinion. The CDC and WHO and other leaders made plenty of messaging mistakes. And they still do. Who would have guessed that we would stop counting new cases of covid? Follow the science, but dont use numbers! So, enough agentless passives. It really doesnt help nove our understanding forward.
I almost feel dumb asking, but should we be worried if we/our kids are fully vaccinated against measles? I’m thankful for my pediatrician’s office…after the 2019 epidemic, they started doing the second vaccine much earlier. So both of my kids were fully vaxed by two.
Not a dumb question at all. You shouldn't be worried. They are fully protected. It is very, very rare occasions that fully vaccinated people get measles. If they do, they usually have a milder illness and are less likely to spread it to other people.
Thank you!! It’s nice to have one less thing to worry about. 😅
Absolutely. One thing to keep in mind: They can still transmit measles. So I would be extra careful around kiddos less than 12 months old if you're in an outbreak area.
Let's be clear. Being recognized as an individual does one no good unless there is some group for comparison. A dead individual is no good to anyone, least of all, themselves and certainly no group of individuals. Individualism is a relative term, not an absolute. Being an individual within a group of individuals does not diminish my uniqueness. Quite the contrary. The more diverse the group I am a member of, the more unique I become. As a start, if vaccination is safe and keeps me alive, why the hell not!!!
Great comment!
As a child in the 50s and 60s, I had the misfortune to contract every single measles variable (red, German, etc.). I was LUCKY as I did not get the most serious side effects ...like my cousin who almost went blind, but ended up with reduced vision! This disease is no laughing matter and when I had children, you know they were vaccinated! I lived all over the country at the time as a Navy brat and I can assure you that Mom's everywhere breathed a huge sigh of relief when this vaccine and others came to fruition. It's unfortunate that our collective memory is so short as I have the scar on my face from writhing in delirium and hitting my head on the guard rail that shows this preventable disease and others like it should be extinct!!
Doctor, you propose that, “We cannot finger-wag our way to a healthier world.” Yet, the healthier world only comes about with an increased sense of community, taking responsibility for each other, and belief in the common good. If a "I'm free to do what I want" person takes that communication as upsetting and finger-wagging, I'd say to you, "Go ahead and wag your finger right in their face."
Thank you, this is all so important. You could also mention that babies born to women who were not vaccinated against measles and who are exposed during or just before pregnancy are at risk for congenital rubella syndrome. From the CDC: "Congenital rubella syndrome (CRS) is an illness in infants that results from maternal infection with rubella virus during pregnancy. When rubella infection occurs during early pregnancy, serious consequences–such as miscarriages, stillbirths, and a constellation of severe birth defects in infants–can result....Common congenital defects of CRS include cataracts, congenital heart disease, hearing impairment, and developmental delay." So today's unvaccinated little girls might grow up to be mothers of impaired children.
Rubella is actually a different illness entirely, although it’s an understandable mixup because it used to be called “German measles” and it’s part of the same combo vaccine (the R in MMR).
I personally find rubella fascinating because it’s generally an incredibly mild illness in children. The benefit in vaccinating kids is mostly in preventing the side effect you mentioned, congenital rubella syndrome, by preventing transmission to pregnant people. It’s a beautiful example of how vaccines work collectively.