Thank you for continuing to compile these resources; it's so helpful to have tools for the conversations. I was wondering if you have references for studies that show vaccine efficacy at preventing long COVID? That's something really concerning for my family and me.
An interesting persuasive point I read what’s “you know that most COVID deaths were in people with Pre existing conditions. If you get COVID, that will be your pre existing condition for the next pandemic”
Sorry to keep asking, but any idea when we’ll get answers to the breastfeeding questions?
I got called to do a research study and they needed people that aren’t vaccinated yet to get the vaccine and a booster. Said sure, but I’m breastfeeding. They said they couldn’t include me in the study. And this is why I’m not vaccinated yet. Breastfeeding people have been excluded from every study as far as I know. At this rate, I guess I’ll have to get vaccinated at the same time my baby does.
Yeah for baby. When we’re breastfeeding, there plenty of medications and substances we’re not supposed to take because they pass into breastmilk and can either harm baby or we don’t know if they can harm baby. Breastfeeding people are excluded from all of the trials I assume because they don’t know if the ingredients in the vaccine get into the breastmilk and what affect that could have on baby. Like if someone could just say hey, “we checked and there’s nothing in breastmilk after vaccination except Covid antibodies,” then I’d feel a lot better.
I know this is incredibly anecdotal, but thought I'd share anyway. I personally know at least 2 nursing moms who chose to be vaccinated. Both they and their little ones did and are doing great. Neither saw any effects in their little ones post vaccination, one saw some decrease in milk supply, but her milk supply seems to be easily impacted by life/other things. One baby was an infant (< 6 months) and one was 1 1/2 years at the time of moms vaccination). They both work in fields where they have close contact with people in relatively small spaces for extended periods of time. Both of their fields require everyone to still be masked (yay Washington!) and the mom with the infant wears a N95. For them the risks of exposure to covid were far greater than the unknown, but likely lower risks of the vaccine. Bonus, both of their babies now have some protection against covid too!
What do I do if I kinda/sorta already said the wrong things to my (otherwise rational) Tucker-Carlson-loving parents? I can't figure out how to get them to separate their political feelings about "the left" from literally every statement that is made by anyone in that group. Best I've been able to do is persuade them that no, I haven't become a wild-eyed liberal socialist, I still agree with them on most things, I just evaluate each issue individually rather than applying blanket acceptance or rejection to an entire party.
I think both parents had planned to get vaccinated for the sake of my Grandmother, who was living with them; but she passed away in February during the freezing disaster. :( My other grandmother succumbed to dementia during 2020, and even though my asthma makes me high-risk, both parents consider that they no longer have any vulnerable family members for whose sake they should be vaccinated.
This despite the fact that Dad has just been diagnosed with inoperable cancer in his lymph nodes. It's slow-growing, and not causing any problems in its current location; and even when it eventually moves to his liver, he should have about 7 years left beyond that point. But any kind of cancer at all increases his risk, right? Plus Mom has asthma, and both of them are "older." (I refuse to call them old, but for the sake of accuracy, Dad is 62, and Mom will be 67 in November.) Given their risk factors and the recent local increase of the Delta variant, I'm increasingly worried about them!
They key here might be helping them realize that THEY are the actually vulnerable ones they should be caring about. Sounds like they were willing to do it to help save your grandmothers life - so that means that somewhere along the way, they picked up that the vaccine works in helping to save lives. (so they don't think that its not safe to take it?) -- so helping them realize that it could save their live and that is so important to you that they stay alive. (and since they were going to do it for grandma anyway, who does it hurt to do it for themselves/for you?)
And then also maybe in trying to get them to do it, perhaps try to get your Dad to connect with his doctor about the vaccine given his recent cancer diagnosis - and likewise for your Mom to talk to her asthma doctor. Maybe they can help convince them?
I would maybe say "I know that you trust your doctors to help you manage your cancer/asthma -- have you asked them what they think about the vaccine?"
I wish you the best of luck! We'll get there, one shot at a time.
Thanks! That sounds like a good way to phrase it. I did manage to have a good, non-emotional talk with my husband, who doesn't want the vaccine because he just generally doesn't trust anyone in authority, or anything that he doesn't observe for himself (unless it's in the Bible). Sadly, he will only get the vaccine if he starts seeing the kind of pervasiveness that can be easily observed without turning on the news. (In other words, if most of the people he knows have been hit by it and hit hard.) Even FDA approval won't persuade him. But at least it's not because he's been blinded by partisanship to the point that he won't even admit the slightest possibility that the opposing side might ever be right about anything! (I think that's why we were able to discuss it without getting angry with each other; it's less emotionally charged for him.)
Anyway, my dad just started seeing the same doctor my husband uses (as his PCP, not for the cancer). Hubby knows the guy from way back when they used to train together in martial arts about 15 years ago, so there's a lot of trust there. I'll have him talk to said doctor and see what he says. If his medical opinion is consistent with the truth, I'll then ask Dad to talk to him about it. Of course, Dad *is* one of those who refuses to believe that the "other side" could ever be right or truthful about anything, so I also have to make sure said doctor holds the correct political beliefs in every other area, or there's no point in having him bring it up to Dad at all.
Congrats on making progress with your husband. I hope the doctor can help.
Such a challenging situation. Before suggesting to your husband, it could be worth calling the doctors office and asking them generically if they are offering the vaccine in their office / encouraging patients to get vaccinated and/or check out their website.
That should give you a sense of where they stand on the issue. (I hadn't thought about the possibility that the doctor wouldn't recommend it...I forget that is an issue in some communities)
And I would also consider this question for your husband (now that you've opened the door and it went okay) "Who does it hurt for you to get vaccinated if it might save my life?" (since you have asthma)
Also, since you mention the bible above, maybe consider talking to your families' religious leaders - maybe they could talk to your husband? Or if you know they are vaccinated, you could say "they did it, maybe you can to?"
As for your Dad, keep looking for people that he trusts that have been vaccinated - Remind him that Trump and most of his family are vaccinated. Sean Hannity just said "I can’t say it enough. Enough people have died. We don’t need any more death. And it absolutely makes sense for many Americans to get vaccinated. I believe in science. I believe in the science of vaccination"
Mitch McConnell said last week: "These shots need to get in everybody’s arm as rapidly as possible, or we’re going to be back in a situation in the fall that we don’t yearn for, that we went through last year...I want to encourage everybody to do that and to ignore all of these other voices that are giving demonstrably bad advice.”
This WaPo article lists out plenty of other Republican and conservative leaders who have moved recently to help get people vaccinated. I probably wouldn't send your dad the WaPo article, since he probably doesn't like the Post, but should give you a good list of people to mention that maybe he trusts.
Sending you hugs and compassion. It's so very hard when we see those we love making decisions that can potentially hurt them (and others and us). Keep having those tough conversations in a loving and respectful way. It is okay to place healthy boundaries where necessary. For example, personally if I had a history of asthma (or any health condition) that increased my risks if I did contract covid, and I lived in TX (or any state with higher case numbers, low vaccine rates and minimal masking), I'd be wearing an n95, kf94 or similar when indoors, especially with people who aren't vaccinated and aren't also masking. I'd let my loved ones know ahead of time, that in light of increasing community numbers and as I continue listening and learning to knowledgeable, educated people who are following things closely, that the risk to me, even as a fully vaccinated person, of potential exposure when around known unvaccinated people indoors for extended periods of time, isn't a risk I'm willing to take. I'm happy to spend time outside unmasked, and indoors when everyone is fully vaccinated. If we can learn anything through this pandemic it's that we CAN be respectful of one another, even when our perception and understandings differ.
I tried to mask around my parents, but it was just too awkward; like passive-aggressively reminding them that I think they're wrong. They do have a fairly large house, so I'm able to mostly social-distance while there; and I don't visit all that often.
If my husband gets it, I'm just screwed, though; we are apartment-dwellers, so there's no way for either of us to isolate from the other. I've caught every single thing he's ever brought home over the past 10 years. He has a very strong immune system, so he doesn't catch the things I bring home, and usually doesn't have symptoms of whatever he brings home to me. So at least we should probably both be fine even if he does get it, as long as I can get him to stay at home.
How kind and loving of you to see that, and choose to do differently for the benefit of your relationships with your parents. Continue listening, continue learning, keep sharing with them and your husband. Wishing you the very best and health for all of you.
I am a paid subscriber and would like the PDF please. I'm also interested to hear if you think any of the recent developments change any of these talking points.
I'd love a PDF version of this please - and Thank You for all you are doing every day to help educate, calm down and encourage all those following your posts. (btw - I am a paid subscriber)!!
Thank you for continuing to compile these resources; it's so helpful to have tools for the conversations. I was wondering if you have references for studies that show vaccine efficacy at preventing long COVID? That's something really concerning for my family and me.
this is what we have so far regarding it: https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/long-covid-vaccines-impact-and-prevalence
An interesting persuasive point I read what’s “you know that most COVID deaths were in people with Pre existing conditions. If you get COVID, that will be your pre existing condition for the next pandemic”
This is fantastic. I've been looking for this kind of advice on how to effectively discuss with people the need to vaccinate. Thank you!
Sorry to keep asking, but any idea when we’ll get answers to the breastfeeding questions?
I got called to do a research study and they needed people that aren’t vaccinated yet to get the vaccine and a booster. Said sure, but I’m breastfeeding. They said they couldn’t include me in the study. And this is why I’m not vaccinated yet. Breastfeeding people have been excluded from every study as far as I know. At this rate, I guess I’ll have to get vaccinated at the same time my baby does.
there are quite a few studies showing effectiveness of antibody transmission via breast milk. maybe i can compile a future post
Yeah I’ve seen those. Not surprising, that’s how breastmilk works. But I’ve seen absolutely nothing on safety.
safety for the mom or baby? the baby is just receiving antibodies. just like it receives antibodies for any other disease. and those aren’t harmful
This is what the CDC says:
“ Because the vaccines have not been studied on lactating people, there are no data available on the:
-Safety of COVID-19 vaccines in lactating people
-Effects of vaccination on the breastfed baby
-Effects on milk production or excretion”
Yeah for baby. When we’re breastfeeding, there plenty of medications and substances we’re not supposed to take because they pass into breastmilk and can either harm baby or we don’t know if they can harm baby. Breastfeeding people are excluded from all of the trials I assume because they don’t know if the ingredients in the vaccine get into the breastmilk and what affect that could have on baby. Like if someone could just say hey, “we checked and there’s nothing in breastmilk after vaccination except Covid antibodies,” then I’d feel a lot better.
I know this is incredibly anecdotal, but thought I'd share anyway. I personally know at least 2 nursing moms who chose to be vaccinated. Both they and their little ones did and are doing great. Neither saw any effects in their little ones post vaccination, one saw some decrease in milk supply, but her milk supply seems to be easily impacted by life/other things. One baby was an infant (< 6 months) and one was 1 1/2 years at the time of moms vaccination). They both work in fields where they have close contact with people in relatively small spaces for extended periods of time. Both of their fields require everyone to still be masked (yay Washington!) and the mom with the infant wears a N95. For them the risks of exposure to covid were far greater than the unknown, but likely lower risks of the vaccine. Bonus, both of their babies now have some protection against covid too!
Thank you for the superb posts. Do we know yet if vaccinated people getting delta breakthrough infection develop a delta specific immune bump?
i haven’t seen any evidence on this
What do I do if I kinda/sorta already said the wrong things to my (otherwise rational) Tucker-Carlson-loving parents? I can't figure out how to get them to separate their political feelings about "the left" from literally every statement that is made by anyone in that group. Best I've been able to do is persuade them that no, I haven't become a wild-eyed liberal socialist, I still agree with them on most things, I just evaluate each issue individually rather than applying blanket acceptance or rejection to an entire party.
I think both parents had planned to get vaccinated for the sake of my Grandmother, who was living with them; but she passed away in February during the freezing disaster. :( My other grandmother succumbed to dementia during 2020, and even though my asthma makes me high-risk, both parents consider that they no longer have any vulnerable family members for whose sake they should be vaccinated.
This despite the fact that Dad has just been diagnosed with inoperable cancer in his lymph nodes. It's slow-growing, and not causing any problems in its current location; and even when it eventually moves to his liver, he should have about 7 years left beyond that point. But any kind of cancer at all increases his risk, right? Plus Mom has asthma, and both of them are "older." (I refuse to call them old, but for the sake of accuracy, Dad is 62, and Mom will be 67 in November.) Given their risk factors and the recent local increase of the Delta variant, I'm increasingly worried about them!
They key here might be helping them realize that THEY are the actually vulnerable ones they should be caring about. Sounds like they were willing to do it to help save your grandmothers life - so that means that somewhere along the way, they picked up that the vaccine works in helping to save lives. (so they don't think that its not safe to take it?) -- so helping them realize that it could save their live and that is so important to you that they stay alive. (and since they were going to do it for grandma anyway, who does it hurt to do it for themselves/for you?)
And then also maybe in trying to get them to do it, perhaps try to get your Dad to connect with his doctor about the vaccine given his recent cancer diagnosis - and likewise for your Mom to talk to her asthma doctor. Maybe they can help convince them?
I would maybe say "I know that you trust your doctors to help you manage your cancer/asthma -- have you asked them what they think about the vaccine?"
I wish you the best of luck! We'll get there, one shot at a time.
Thanks! That sounds like a good way to phrase it. I did manage to have a good, non-emotional talk with my husband, who doesn't want the vaccine because he just generally doesn't trust anyone in authority, or anything that he doesn't observe for himself (unless it's in the Bible). Sadly, he will only get the vaccine if he starts seeing the kind of pervasiveness that can be easily observed without turning on the news. (In other words, if most of the people he knows have been hit by it and hit hard.) Even FDA approval won't persuade him. But at least it's not because he's been blinded by partisanship to the point that he won't even admit the slightest possibility that the opposing side might ever be right about anything! (I think that's why we were able to discuss it without getting angry with each other; it's less emotionally charged for him.)
Anyway, my dad just started seeing the same doctor my husband uses (as his PCP, not for the cancer). Hubby knows the guy from way back when they used to train together in martial arts about 15 years ago, so there's a lot of trust there. I'll have him talk to said doctor and see what he says. If his medical opinion is consistent with the truth, I'll then ask Dad to talk to him about it. Of course, Dad *is* one of those who refuses to believe that the "other side" could ever be right or truthful about anything, so I also have to make sure said doctor holds the correct political beliefs in every other area, or there's no point in having him bring it up to Dad at all.
Congrats on making progress with your husband. I hope the doctor can help.
Such a challenging situation. Before suggesting to your husband, it could be worth calling the doctors office and asking them generically if they are offering the vaccine in their office / encouraging patients to get vaccinated and/or check out their website.
That should give you a sense of where they stand on the issue. (I hadn't thought about the possibility that the doctor wouldn't recommend it...I forget that is an issue in some communities)
And I would also consider this question for your husband (now that you've opened the door and it went okay) "Who does it hurt for you to get vaccinated if it might save my life?" (since you have asthma)
Also, since you mention the bible above, maybe consider talking to your families' religious leaders - maybe they could talk to your husband? Or if you know they are vaccinated, you could say "they did it, maybe you can to?"
As for your Dad, keep looking for people that he trusts that have been vaccinated - Remind him that Trump and most of his family are vaccinated. Sean Hannity just said "I can’t say it enough. Enough people have died. We don’t need any more death. And it absolutely makes sense for many Americans to get vaccinated. I believe in science. I believe in the science of vaccination"
Mitch McConnell said last week: "These shots need to get in everybody’s arm as rapidly as possible, or we’re going to be back in a situation in the fall that we don’t yearn for, that we went through last year...I want to encourage everybody to do that and to ignore all of these other voices that are giving demonstrably bad advice.”
This WaPo article lists out plenty of other Republican and conservative leaders who have moved recently to help get people vaccinated. I probably wouldn't send your dad the WaPo article, since he probably doesn't like the Post, but should give you a good list of people to mention that maybe he trusts.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/growing-number-of-republicans-urge-vaccinations-amid-delta-surge/2021/07/20/52a06e9c-e999-11eb-8950-d73b3e93ff7f_story.html
Keep up the good work!!! You can do it!!
Sending you hugs and compassion. It's so very hard when we see those we love making decisions that can potentially hurt them (and others and us). Keep having those tough conversations in a loving and respectful way. It is okay to place healthy boundaries where necessary. For example, personally if I had a history of asthma (or any health condition) that increased my risks if I did contract covid, and I lived in TX (or any state with higher case numbers, low vaccine rates and minimal masking), I'd be wearing an n95, kf94 or similar when indoors, especially with people who aren't vaccinated and aren't also masking. I'd let my loved ones know ahead of time, that in light of increasing community numbers and as I continue listening and learning to knowledgeable, educated people who are following things closely, that the risk to me, even as a fully vaccinated person, of potential exposure when around known unvaccinated people indoors for extended periods of time, isn't a risk I'm willing to take. I'm happy to spend time outside unmasked, and indoors when everyone is fully vaccinated. If we can learn anything through this pandemic it's that we CAN be respectful of one another, even when our perception and understandings differ.
I tried to mask around my parents, but it was just too awkward; like passive-aggressively reminding them that I think they're wrong. They do have a fairly large house, so I'm able to mostly social-distance while there; and I don't visit all that often.
If my husband gets it, I'm just screwed, though; we are apartment-dwellers, so there's no way for either of us to isolate from the other. I've caught every single thing he's ever brought home over the past 10 years. He has a very strong immune system, so he doesn't catch the things I bring home, and usually doesn't have symptoms of whatever he brings home to me. So at least we should probably both be fine even if he does get it, as long as I can get him to stay at home.
How kind and loving of you to see that, and choose to do differently for the benefit of your relationships with your parents. Continue listening, continue learning, keep sharing with them and your husband. Wishing you the very best and health for all of you.
I am a paid subscriber and would like the PDF please. I'm also interested to hear if you think any of the recent developments change any of these talking points.
I'd love a PDF version of this please - and Thank You for all you are doing every day to help educate, calm down and encourage all those following your posts. (btw - I am a paid subscriber)!!
I just subscribed. How do I get a pdf of this chart?
please email me at yourlocalepidemiologist@gmail.com and I can send your way
How can I get a PDF copy?
email me at yourlocalepidemiologist@gmail.com (or reply to this email) and I will send!