This is anecdotal, but I noticed after my first bivalent booster in October a significant reduction in my PASC (long Covid) symptoms. A very noticeable improvement. I know correlation doesn't imply causation and I don't understand the mechanism that would be involved if there was causation, but I am very eager to get a second bivalent. My age gives me eligibility!
Just a quick note: if I could graph as well as YLE (and I can't!) my PASC symptoms for 2020 and 2021 would look like a high spikey plateau. Then in 2022 they start to descend in a jaggedy shallow curve. The bivalent booster is in early October and there is a sudden rapid drop levelling off to a low value on the y-axis. That's why I'm greatly looking forward to a second bivalent. One more such drop like October's might effectively close out my PASC!
Do you know Michael? I have never thought about it, but I did too. I was already getting much better before the booster but post booster I can’t say that I had any “bad days” and I even started socializing and running again shortly thereafter. Then of course I got Covid again last month and it has been a bit of a tough go with fatigue and congestion but nothing like the post Covid mess last time.
I'm happy it's going better for you! I also used to run well into my sixties- very long distance trail races and I conjecture that the robust good health I took into the first infection, served me well in finally emerging from it. But what a nightmare it was for a long while with PASC.
Formerly able to run ultras, I couldn't walk across the room without getting breathless! Covid is nothing to take lightly!
I wish everyone's language, including yours, would refer to "severe acute disease" instead of "severe disease", to be more accurate. They haven't measured the impact of boosters on Long COVID, nor on what the general public would call severe Long COVID (significant sustained reduction in daily activities). When the public hears facts about severe disease, eg how much less of it there is, they falsely think that severe Long COVID is included. Actually, it has been excluded from the decision making process.
Thanks, as always, for the clear, concise summation.
Two questions:
For those of us over 65+ who have had recent infections, you note you agree with Canada’s approach. Van you advise what that is, and specifically, what waiting period is recommended?
Re the stroke issue related to taking the flu and Covid vaxes at the same time, have you any sense of when the CDC will have guidance on this, and is there or will there be any recommendation as to how far apart and in what order the two vaxes should be taken?
2. During the CDC meeting, the scientists said they were confident there wasn't a safety signal. I was surprised not much was discussed about this, because usually we don't only rely on statistics, especially when it's so close to being significant. They did say they are looking into other data sources to try and understand this better.
For the last two years, my doctor advised me to space out Covid shot and flu shot by at least 2 weeks, even though CDC said it was okay to combine. I wonder what my doctor knew that the CDC didn’t know, yet I’m glad CDC is finally addressing this. People make decisions selfishly based on what’s best for them, not what’s best for society.
The CDC's patient is the population as a whole, so they want everyone jabbed with everything as quickly as possible. Your doctor's patient is you, so he's being more conservative.
I also look forward to hearing the waiting period between recent infection and a 2nd bivalent booster. As far as flu + Covid vaccines, what has worked out well for me, partly because it is very easy for me to go and get vaccinated, was to get my fall flu shot 2 weeks before the fall Covid vaccine. I just liked the idea better of having one sore arm rather than two and not asking my immune system to deal with both at once. Interested to hear what the recommendation is from other perspectives.
Technically you can get it today. But, word on the street is that pharmacies are starting to schedule for next week. I would check with your local pharmacy
Also, check with your local health department. I work for one and got mine today, as I’m immunocompromised. I have heard anecdotally that people are having some issues with pharmacies, systems not updated yet, etc.
Yeah, although I think you would run into a rationing issue, if we blew the whole thing open. The idea I had in the beginning of 2021 was to have a system where anyone can go ahead and schedule a shot, but you'd get rescheduled if a higher priority person came along and wanted your spot, with say, 48 hours notice.
A surgical colleague of mine, also retired and older than 65 years, went to his CVS shop yesterday and was told, "We know nothing about this new COVID booster". Why am I not surprised?
Any info on possible negative imprinting when weighing the decision to get the spring booster? I’m in the under 65 immunocompromised group and have gotten all offered vaccines and boosters including a three dose primary series. Never had COVID, so just have vaccine related immunity.
Can someone (Katelyn or anybody else) please clarify: If you are over 65, and get the "spring" bivalent this month, are you then STILL going to be eligible for the "fall" bivalent shot?
I'm 70, healthy, (HTN that's about it) and I work in healthcare. I got my bivalent booster (Pfizer) in September and just got my second one two weeks ago. I'm not missing a booster. I'll be first in line for the Fall one too, but I think I will separate my flu shot from my bivalent booster and not get the combo.
I appreciate your updates! I am over 65 and all set to get my spring second bivalent booster, and was wondering if it matters which company we use, Moderna vs Pfizer? I have had mostly Moderna shots so far, with one Pfizer for the second booster.
Thank you for your work. I appreciate you. This “cliff notes” report skillfully directed my elderly self through the significance of the 39% to the end of the article and finally these comments (which also interested me.) Fun to occasionally see you on TeeVee as well. I’ll not write again but just wanted you to know of my silent presence.
One suggestion is that we should stop calling it a “booster” now tab the primary series no longer counts as being fully immunized. We should just refer to it as annual Covid-19 shot just like annual flu shot. This would eliminate some of confusion and hesitancy.
I am 65+ with comorbidities and immunocompromised. Had 5 COVID vaccines including the bivalent 7 months ago. No history of COVID infection to my knowledge. Debating whether or not to get the second bivalent. Is there value to getting a COVID antibody titer? Any evidence to correlation with immunity?
You say that " need to think of effectiveness as “relative” now—relative to some combination of prior vaccination, prior infection, or both. This means the 39% is the benefit above and beyond whatever underlying immunity an individual has. We’re going to see lower numbers than we were used to because of this, but it doesn’t mean we’re not getting protection (i.e., hospitals are not filling up)."
Please explain: 1) Relative vaccine effectiveness and 2) How do we know what our underlying immunity from vaccines is? What is percentage of vaccine effectiveness remaining from previous vaccines that can be added to the 39%? It makes it difficult to assess ones risk if there are no concrete answers to these questions which I suspect is the case. Given this, the best thing to do is to protect yourself and your family by staying up to date with vaccines, masking with an N 95, and avoiding poorly ventilated and crowded indoor spaces. As well as, continuing all the other covid precautionary principles.
Incredible summary, as usual! Thank you so much, Dr. Jetelina! I have reviewed the CDC website and the description of immunocompromised is on the same page with the list of conditions that put one at high risk of COVID. If someone is 50 or 60 but has one or more high risk conditions, can/should one get a spring booster? Or does the approval not cover these people?
It seems strange to me that they did not include patients with comorbidities other than immunocompromise as eligible. For example, I am 59, have asthma, have never been infected (and have had all recommended vaccines).
This is anecdotal, but I noticed after my first bivalent booster in October a significant reduction in my PASC (long Covid) symptoms. A very noticeable improvement. I know correlation doesn't imply causation and I don't understand the mechanism that would be involved if there was causation, but I am very eager to get a second bivalent. My age gives me eligibility!
Just a quick note: if I could graph as well as YLE (and I can't!) my PASC symptoms for 2020 and 2021 would look like a high spikey plateau. Then in 2022 they start to descend in a jaggedy shallow curve. The bivalent booster is in early October and there is a sudden rapid drop levelling off to a low value on the y-axis. That's why I'm greatly looking forward to a second bivalent. One more such drop like October's might effectively close out my PASC!
Do you know Michael? I have never thought about it, but I did too. I was already getting much better before the booster but post booster I can’t say that I had any “bad days” and I even started socializing and running again shortly thereafter. Then of course I got Covid again last month and it has been a bit of a tough go with fatigue and congestion but nothing like the post Covid mess last time.
I'm happy it's going better for you! I also used to run well into my sixties- very long distance trail races and I conjecture that the robust good health I took into the first infection, served me well in finally emerging from it. But what a nightmare it was for a long while with PASC.
Formerly able to run ultras, I couldn't walk across the room without getting breathless! Covid is nothing to take lightly!
Michael, I really really hope the second booster ends your long covid. Sending you good thoughts.
Many thanks. I'm very optimistic!
I wish everyone's language, including yours, would refer to "severe acute disease" instead of "severe disease", to be more accurate. They haven't measured the impact of boosters on Long COVID, nor on what the general public would call severe Long COVID (significant sustained reduction in daily activities). When the public hears facts about severe disease, eg how much less of it there is, they falsely think that severe Long COVID is included. Actually, it has been excluded from the decision making process.
Thanks, as always, for the clear, concise summation.
Two questions:
For those of us over 65+ who have had recent infections, you note you agree with Canada’s approach. Van you advise what that is, and specifically, what waiting period is recommended?
Re the stroke issue related to taking the flu and Covid vaxes at the same time, have you any sense of when the CDC will have guidance on this, and is there or will there be any recommendation as to how far apart and in what order the two vaxes should be taken?
These are good questions.
1. I meant to link the Canada policy, but forgot! Sorry. Here it is: https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/vaccines-immunization/national-advisory-committee-immunization-guidance-additional-covid-19-booster-dose-spring-2023-individuals-high-risk-severe-illness-due-covid-19.html Basically they said everyone over the age of 80 needs a vaccine (regardless of infection status). For those 65-79 years old, they don't need a Spring booster if they EVER had an infection because hybrid immunity is showing to last at least 12 months. They didn't provide a time frame, because I don't think we know. So, I always use the 6 month rule.
2. During the CDC meeting, the scientists said they were confident there wasn't a safety signal. I was surprised not much was discussed about this, because usually we don't only rely on statistics, especially when it's so close to being significant. They did say they are looking into other data sources to try and understand this better.
Appreciated, thank you!!
For the last two years, my doctor advised me to space out Covid shot and flu shot by at least 2 weeks, even though CDC said it was okay to combine. I wonder what my doctor knew that the CDC didn’t know, yet I’m glad CDC is finally addressing this. People make decisions selfishly based on what’s best for them, not what’s best for society.
The CDC's patient is the population as a whole, so they want everyone jabbed with everything as quickly as possible. Your doctor's patient is you, so he's being more conservative.
I also look forward to hearing the waiting period between recent infection and a 2nd bivalent booster. As far as flu + Covid vaccines, what has worked out well for me, partly because it is very easy for me to go and get vaccinated, was to get my fall flu shot 2 weeks before the fall Covid vaccine. I just liked the idea better of having one sore arm rather than two and not asking my immune system to deal with both at once. Interested to hear what the recommendation is from other perspectives.
I’m over 65. How soon can I get the spring booster? Today? Next week?
Technically you can get it today. But, word on the street is that pharmacies are starting to schedule for next week. I would check with your local pharmacy
Thanks.
Also, check with your local health department. I work for one and got mine today, as I’m immunocompromised. I have heard anecdotally that people are having some issues with pharmacies, systems not updated yet, etc.
Why not let anyone who wants one get another booster? What is the downside? Did they even consider this option?
Yeah, although I think you would run into a rationing issue, if we blew the whole thing open. The idea I had in the beginning of 2021 was to have a system where anyone can go ahead and schedule a shot, but you'd get rescheduled if a higher priority person came along and wanted your spot, with say, 48 hours notice.
Criterion = singular Criteria = plural
No such thing as "this criteria".
A surgical colleague of mine, also retired and older than 65 years, went to his CVS shop yesterday and was told, "We know nothing about this new COVID booster". Why am I not surprised?
Any info on possible negative imprinting when weighing the decision to get the spring booster? I’m in the under 65 immunocompromised group and have gotten all offered vaccines and boosters including a three dose primary series. Never had COVID, so just have vaccine related immunity.
Can someone (Katelyn or anybody else) please clarify: If you are over 65, and get the "spring" bivalent this month, are you then STILL going to be eligible for the "fall" bivalent shot?
Sorta would require you to be a bit of a Cassandra, right? Has anyone even decided this yet?
Thank you for the excellent presentation of information. You are a treasure.
I'm 70, healthy, (HTN that's about it) and I work in healthcare. I got my bivalent booster (Pfizer) in September and just got my second one two weeks ago. I'm not missing a booster. I'll be first in line for the Fall one too, but I think I will separate my flu shot from my bivalent booster and not get the combo.
I appreciate your updates! I am over 65 and all set to get my spring second bivalent booster, and was wondering if it matters which company we use, Moderna vs Pfizer? I have had mostly Moderna shots so far, with one Pfizer for the second booster.
Thank you for your work. I appreciate you. This “cliff notes” report skillfully directed my elderly self through the significance of the 39% to the end of the article and finally these comments (which also interested me.) Fun to occasionally see you on TeeVee as well. I’ll not write again but just wanted you to know of my silent presence.
YLE - you are better than Cliff Notes. Thank you.
One suggestion is that we should stop calling it a “booster” now tab the primary series no longer counts as being fully immunized. We should just refer to it as annual Covid-19 shot just like annual flu shot. This would eliminate some of confusion and hesitancy.
I am 65+ with comorbidities and immunocompromised. Had 5 COVID vaccines including the bivalent 7 months ago. No history of COVID infection to my knowledge. Debating whether or not to get the second bivalent. Is there value to getting a COVID antibody titer? Any evidence to correlation with immunity?
I think antibody titers would be a great add-on to routine bloodwork thar one gets annually. The same blood draw could be used to
- help doctors get insight into their patient's risk
- determine whether it's OK to take Paxlovid without a prescription
- detect underlying conditions that might suggest the need for more frequent boosting
You say that " need to think of effectiveness as “relative” now—relative to some combination of prior vaccination, prior infection, or both. This means the 39% is the benefit above and beyond whatever underlying immunity an individual has. We’re going to see lower numbers than we were used to because of this, but it doesn’t mean we’re not getting protection (i.e., hospitals are not filling up)."
Please explain: 1) Relative vaccine effectiveness and 2) How do we know what our underlying immunity from vaccines is? What is percentage of vaccine effectiveness remaining from previous vaccines that can be added to the 39%? It makes it difficult to assess ones risk if there are no concrete answers to these questions which I suspect is the case. Given this, the best thing to do is to protect yourself and your family by staying up to date with vaccines, masking with an N 95, and avoiding poorly ventilated and crowded indoor spaces. As well as, continuing all the other covid precautionary principles.
Incredible summary, as usual! Thank you so much, Dr. Jetelina! I have reviewed the CDC website and the description of immunocompromised is on the same page with the list of conditions that put one at high risk of COVID. If someone is 50 or 60 but has one or more high risk conditions, can/should one get a spring booster? Or does the approval not cover these people?
Officially, people under 65 that are not severely immunocompromised are not eligible.
It seems strange to me that they did not include patients with comorbidities other than immunocompromise as eligible. For example, I am 59, have asthma, have never been infected (and have had all recommended vaccines).
A continuous risk score would have surely been preferable.
But....in the end something like that could become just as rigid as our current imperfect system of arbitrary age cutoffs.