Thank you for providing this arc in how thinking has evolved around the value of wearing masks as new information became known.
I’m still masking, and I hate it but do it anyway. Is it fair to say, that when a virus is extremely contagious, masks primarily *delay* infection, but sooner or later, if you’re out and about enough, even if yo…
Thank you for providing this arc in how thinking has evolved around the value of wearing masks as new information became known.
I’m still masking, and I hate it but do it anyway. Is it fair to say, that when a virus is extremely contagious, masks primarily *delay* infection, but sooner or later, if you’re out and about enough, even if you’re wearing the right mask, you’re going to get Covid? All it takes is one unlucky airplane ride or jury duty sitting next to the wrong person?
Also, I’m headed to London soon and hear cases are on the rise again in the UK. So why are they ending the bivalent booster? Seems like odd timing.
Wait, I didn't hear they were ending the bivalent booster?! Am curious to hear the answer to your question.
I also don't know about the delaying COVID question. Almost everyone I know has gotten COVID, but those who always wear masks seem to be most likely to be in the "never had COVID" group. But, at least among people I know, they are also the most likely to still be curtailing their activities to an extent - e.g. no social gatherings unless outside - so hard to say.
I've done a little more reading, and I'm unclear whether the United Kingdom has ended (as of February 12) the booster for everyone or just those under 50. If I'm understanding correctly, they will offer an updated booster this Fall, but only for a very limited group of high risk people. Probably not the under 50 crowd unless immunocompromised. It will be curious to see whether the US follows a similar approach.
As far as masks go, about a year ago, when more people wore them to indoor events, I knew plenty of people who got covid even though they were also wearing a mask. For all the folks in the "never had covid" group that I know today, they still mask, and they also don't participate in a lot of indoor activities, even everyday ones like grocery shopping. Instead, they have groceries delivered or pick them up curbside. So for people who haven't yet had covid, from my perspective it's really hard to tell how much of this is behavior vs vaccine protection.
It's all anecdotal, but our family has never participated in the Covid Precautions, mainly because if it was as contagious as claimed, infection was inevitable (given my wife is a surgeon it seemed certain she would bring home from the hospital at some point).
Therefore, we lived life the past 3 years as we lived the 40 years before that. No masks unless required, had our kids in school, they stayed in all of their extra curricular activities, had sleepovers, parties, vacations, dined out frequently, etc.
We all eventually got it once at different times, but for our family was indistinguishable from the other colds we have all had in our lifetimes. It's anecdotal, sure, but I can't help sorry for the remaining people who appear to be gripped by hypochondria.
You have others of us who have anecdotally lost family members and suffered from coronary complications after infection, and we are subject to the whims of those who have chosen to "live their lives like they always did" and are not taking any measures to mitigate spread. So do feel sorry for us, since we have to abridge our own lifestyles due to the decisions made by others unwilling to take very simple and non-invasive steps to help stop spread in crowded indoor areas. It is not "just a cold" for many and the R0 is very high.
You are at year 3, entering year 4. I mean this honestly, curiously, and with respect - how many years is reasonable to "abridge your lifestyle"?
And do you truly believe that if others abridged, anything would be different?
I feel like China demonstrated once and for all - it doesn't matter what you do, Covid join Taxes and Deaths of certainties.
It seems to me that given the choice of an abridged life where I eventually get Covid, and a "live like I always did" and get covid, the latter seems the more sensible pick.
Every day you see another article like this and I wonder "was it worth it?" (he thinks so)
Interesting, your choice of avoiding an 'abridged life'. I'm 82, and still have a small effect on the directions the next 3 generations after me take. To get that effect, is a bit like driving a car a car with many passengers, on a very busy road So I continue in an abridged manner, and can see the young'uns developing wonderfully in their lives. That is why the discomfort of a mask in public is worthwhile to me.
Realistically, doesn't seem like we will have something soon. Influenza like viruses have proven notoriously difficult to vaccinate and medicate. The low efficacy of Flu vaccines, despite our best attempts, haven't been very good. TamiFlu and other therapeutics, haven't delivered on their promise. We spent a lot of time and money testing hundreds of drugs the last 3 years, and all we have to show for it is the occasional monoclonal antibody that gets withdrawn for lack of efficacy after a few months and Paxlovid which doesn't appear to have impacted all-cause mortality (the only metric I trust). Not trying to be pessimistic, just pragmatic.
For your second question, the TL;DR is only my wife got 1 dose of Moderna, the rest of us hedged our bets.
My wifes dose of Moderna December 2020 knocked her out for 2 days, had to cancel surgeries and miss work which is unheard of for her. We chalked her reaction up to the fact she has Crohn's Disease which she manages through rigorous exercise. She declined on further doses which her hospital was ok with, but still wanted me to get it when I became eligible which I had planned on doing.
As the weeks ticked by my facebook feed became inundated with posts from friends remarking on how terrible the vaccine made them feel, which they reasoned must mean a Covid infection would be worse. This gave me pause and I kept pushing it off as I was too busy to be sick, and again, after a year of living completely normally I should have been infected a dozen times over, so I kept delaying it.
Fall of 2021 my daughter came down with a low grade fever (99), she was 11 at the time and this was a week or two before her age group would be approved, she tested positive. Now my wife was sure I would pay the price for delaying the vaccine.
I thought this was likely too, but thankfully I never got sick, even though I was around my daughter and took care of her that day or two she had symptoms of a minor cold.
Strangely at that time when my daughter got Covid, my wife also got very sick for a few days and had to miss work once again, but she never tested positive on two separate PCR tests nor several rapid tests. So, whatever she had was some other virus which coincidently hit her when my daughter got Covid.
After my daughter got it and I didn't, my wife and I stopped thinking about me getting Covid vaccine, especially since all of the "doing it right" countries/states with strong vaccination rates had case rates explode (Vermont, California; Portugal, Israel, South Korea).
When I finally got Covid 8 months later (June 2022), as I said above, it was just a migraine headache + fever which lasted 24 hours. No breathing issue, no sore throat, no loss of taste/smell. Weird.
I'm certainly not the paragon of health like my wife - I rarely exercised during the pandemic, I eat poorly (though I have one of those metabolisms where I can't really get fat), and used to smoke a pack a day in my 20's.
As for my son (now 7), he's had several colds throughout the pandemic, perhaps one of those was Covid, but the few times we wasted the 10 bucks on a rapid test it was negative and we just treated it like we did the colds my daughter had between 2009 - 2019, that is, keep them home while sick and 24 hours after fever, hydrate them, and use antibiotics as needed.
I have not heard anything about the ending of the bivalent booster. Indeed I, like all over 50s, will expect to be given an annual autumn booster.
@BayDog
I queried my medical colleague (retired I.D. and Epidemiologist) in the UK about your "....UK cases on the rise and ending the bivalent booster" and here is his reply:
"Little appears in our news about COVID case numbers. I am not aware of our hospitals being under pressure from a rapid increase in related admissions.
I wonder where the correspondent received his/her information from?"
Thanks so much for double checking! I was reading this: "COVID-19 infections continued to increase in England, increased in Wales and Scotland, and continued to decrease in Northern Ireland, in the week ending 7 February 2023." Link below. I believe this from the government website, so hopefully not misinformation!
Thank you for providing this arc in how thinking has evolved around the value of wearing masks as new information became known.
I’m still masking, and I hate it but do it anyway. Is it fair to say, that when a virus is extremely contagious, masks primarily *delay* infection, but sooner or later, if you’re out and about enough, even if you’re wearing the right mask, you’re going to get Covid? All it takes is one unlucky airplane ride or jury duty sitting next to the wrong person?
Also, I’m headed to London soon and hear cases are on the rise again in the UK. So why are they ending the bivalent booster? Seems like odd timing.
Wait, I didn't hear they were ending the bivalent booster?! Am curious to hear the answer to your question.
I also don't know about the delaying COVID question. Almost everyone I know has gotten COVID, but those who always wear masks seem to be most likely to be in the "never had COVID" group. But, at least among people I know, they are also the most likely to still be curtailing their activities to an extent - e.g. no social gatherings unless outside - so hard to say.
I've done a little more reading, and I'm unclear whether the United Kingdom has ended (as of February 12) the booster for everyone or just those under 50. If I'm understanding correctly, they will offer an updated booster this Fall, but only for a very limited group of high risk people. Probably not the under 50 crowd unless immunocompromised. It will be curious to see whether the US follows a similar approach.
As far as masks go, about a year ago, when more people wore them to indoor events, I knew plenty of people who got covid even though they were also wearing a mask. For all the folks in the "never had covid" group that I know today, they still mask, and they also don't participate in a lot of indoor activities, even everyday ones like grocery shopping. Instead, they have groceries delivered or pick them up curbside. So for people who haven't yet had covid, from my perspective it's really hard to tell how much of this is behavior vs vaccine protection.
It's all anecdotal, but our family has never participated in the Covid Precautions, mainly because if it was as contagious as claimed, infection was inevitable (given my wife is a surgeon it seemed certain she would bring home from the hospital at some point).
Therefore, we lived life the past 3 years as we lived the 40 years before that. No masks unless required, had our kids in school, they stayed in all of their extra curricular activities, had sleepovers, parties, vacations, dined out frequently, etc.
We all eventually got it once at different times, but for our family was indistinguishable from the other colds we have all had in our lifetimes. It's anecdotal, sure, but I can't help sorry for the remaining people who appear to be gripped by hypochondria.
You have others of us who have anecdotally lost family members and suffered from coronary complications after infection, and we are subject to the whims of those who have chosen to "live their lives like they always did" and are not taking any measures to mitigate spread. So do feel sorry for us, since we have to abridge our own lifestyles due to the decisions made by others unwilling to take very simple and non-invasive steps to help stop spread in crowded indoor areas. It is not "just a cold" for many and the R0 is very high.
You are at year 3, entering year 4. I mean this honestly, curiously, and with respect - how many years is reasonable to "abridge your lifestyle"?
And do you truly believe that if others abridged, anything would be different?
I feel like China demonstrated once and for all - it doesn't matter what you do, Covid join Taxes and Deaths of certainties.
It seems to me that given the choice of an abridged life where I eventually get Covid, and a "live like I always did" and get covid, the latter seems the more sensible pick.
Every day you see another article like this and I wonder "was it worth it?" (he thinks so)
https://thebanter.substack.com/p/after-three-years-covid-finally-got
Not being argumentative, or debate your opinion, I generally am interested in this mindset as I am a very risk adverse person.
Interesting, your choice of avoiding an 'abridged life'. I'm 82, and still have a small effect on the directions the next 3 generations after me take. To get that effect, is a bit like driving a car a car with many passengers, on a very busy road So I continue in an abridged manner, and can see the young'uns developing wonderfully in their lives. That is why the discomfort of a mask in public is worthwhile to me.
I understand your logic even if I don't yet follow it. Fingers crossed we'll have something better soon - but how long do we have to wait?
Were you and your family vaccinated before each of you got covid?
Realistically, doesn't seem like we will have something soon. Influenza like viruses have proven notoriously difficult to vaccinate and medicate. The low efficacy of Flu vaccines, despite our best attempts, haven't been very good. TamiFlu and other therapeutics, haven't delivered on their promise. We spent a lot of time and money testing hundreds of drugs the last 3 years, and all we have to show for it is the occasional monoclonal antibody that gets withdrawn for lack of efficacy after a few months and Paxlovid which doesn't appear to have impacted all-cause mortality (the only metric I trust). Not trying to be pessimistic, just pragmatic.
For your second question, the TL;DR is only my wife got 1 dose of Moderna, the rest of us hedged our bets.
My wifes dose of Moderna December 2020 knocked her out for 2 days, had to cancel surgeries and miss work which is unheard of for her. We chalked her reaction up to the fact she has Crohn's Disease which she manages through rigorous exercise. She declined on further doses which her hospital was ok with, but still wanted me to get it when I became eligible which I had planned on doing.
As the weeks ticked by my facebook feed became inundated with posts from friends remarking on how terrible the vaccine made them feel, which they reasoned must mean a Covid infection would be worse. This gave me pause and I kept pushing it off as I was too busy to be sick, and again, after a year of living completely normally I should have been infected a dozen times over, so I kept delaying it.
Fall of 2021 my daughter came down with a low grade fever (99), she was 11 at the time and this was a week or two before her age group would be approved, she tested positive. Now my wife was sure I would pay the price for delaying the vaccine.
I thought this was likely too, but thankfully I never got sick, even though I was around my daughter and took care of her that day or two she had symptoms of a minor cold.
Strangely at that time when my daughter got Covid, my wife also got very sick for a few days and had to miss work once again, but she never tested positive on two separate PCR tests nor several rapid tests. So, whatever she had was some other virus which coincidently hit her when my daughter got Covid.
After my daughter got it and I didn't, my wife and I stopped thinking about me getting Covid vaccine, especially since all of the "doing it right" countries/states with strong vaccination rates had case rates explode (Vermont, California; Portugal, Israel, South Korea).
When I finally got Covid 8 months later (June 2022), as I said above, it was just a migraine headache + fever which lasted 24 hours. No breathing issue, no sore throat, no loss of taste/smell. Weird.
I'm certainly not the paragon of health like my wife - I rarely exercised during the pandemic, I eat poorly (though I have one of those metabolisms where I can't really get fat), and used to smoke a pack a day in my 20's.
As for my son (now 7), he's had several colds throughout the pandemic, perhaps one of those was Covid, but the few times we wasted the 10 bucks on a rapid test it was negative and we just treated it like we did the colds my daughter had between 2009 - 2019, that is, keep them home while sick and 24 hours after fever, hydrate them, and use antibiotics as needed.
I have not heard anything about the ending of the bivalent booster. Indeed I, like all over 50s, will expect to be given an annual autumn booster.
@BayDog
I queried my medical colleague (retired I.D. and Epidemiologist) in the UK about your "....UK cases on the rise and ending the bivalent booster" and here is his reply:
"Little appears in our news about COVID case numbers. I am not aware of our hospitals being under pressure from a rapid increase in related admissions.
I wonder where the correspondent received his/her information from?"
Perhaps one of you is misinformed??
Thanks so much for double checking! I was reading this: "COVID-19 infections continued to increase in England, increased in Wales and Scotland, and continued to decrease in Northern Ireland, in the week ending 7 February 2023." Link below. I believe this from the government website, so hopefully not misinformation!
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/infections
Also, "Patients Admitted in England" (to hospital) on the rise, but not at all time high:
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk
And to be clear, the booster is being discontinued (under 50) in the United Kingdom, *not* in the US:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/04/people-in-england-aged-49-and-younger-urged-to-get-free-covid-booster